Author Topic: Save the Evil Ones  (Read 4017 times)

zanzibar

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Re: Save the Evil Ones
« Reply #75 on: September 17, 2006, 11:56:22 am »
I think that players need to get permission from the mechanics of the game to be evil.  In Daggerfall, you have the Blades and the theives guild.  If you kill too many people, the Blades come after you.  If you steal too much, the theives guild come after you.  They're kind of like unions who kill anyone who steals work from them.



On challenges:  I usually accept challenges.  Almost always though, the person is lame and uses hit and run attacks and potions.  If I'm winning, they just run away and use energy arrow.  Is that fun?  Heck no.
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makita

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Re: Save the Evil Ones
« Reply #76 on: September 18, 2006, 06:22:45 am »
rp "evil" some thread...save the evil ones...
threads like this allways tend to pop up on ps forums, the problem is far from old yet nobody does anything about it, why???
firstly imo in order to succesfully rp evil you need some sort of game mechanics to help you otherwise it just ends up in a typical my father is stronger than your father argument only in tells and without the family buisness..."not allways tough, i did had a few "nice regards sent towards my mother back in my days.."
but back to the subject at hand, take an example i played a game for a few weeks now, were rp-ing evil is very easy, why? because it's fully pvp, i just get some people to help me and we go to a doo-gooders city, kill all the guards then kill all the citizens, then p**s on the bodies....whatever. it is because it's allowed by the game mechanics that it's not rp anymore?, i don't think so
in the current state of affairs a evil character really can't do anything beside insulting someone[ ie: backstabing, murdering, kidnapping, torturing, etc...not posiible exept with the accord of the other player] and who would say something like: yeah sure i would be more than happy, would you please murder me?... no because all ps players are heroes...knights in shining armour who when you go like 10 guys against one and start "attacking" him, he goes like: /me pulls his magicall sword, does a whirlwid slash and kills all his attackers...then what???
[edit] sorry zanzibar, mustve missed that last post...
imo this is what ps is without any way of pvp:
http://www.thenoobcomic.com/daily/strip040.html
talk is cheap, it's the actions that promote your character...
« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 06:24:24 am by makita »

LARAGORN

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Re: Save the Evil Ones
« Reply #77 on: September 18, 2006, 08:29:11 am »

http://www.thenoobcomic.com/daily/strip040.html


Thats some good evil :)
I cant wait for double arsemod to be implimented in PS :P

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Nikodemus

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Re: Save the Evil Ones
« Reply #78 on: September 18, 2006, 08:54:27 am »

http://www.thenoobcomic.com/daily/strip040.html


Thats some good evil :)
I cant wait for double arsemod to be implimented in PS :P
But what this episode has to do with double arsemode???
We are not talking about The Noob comic, but about the happy roleplayer paradise ;P

The pvp is the key.
Without, we have happy roleplayer paradise which is bad.
With, we have terrible griefers heaven which is also bad.

The factor which bring balance beatwen two with pvp on, is operating guards force. So that good players can fight with flow of bad players who often are bad purely for their own fun.
I can't point out any game which would have it, together with proper RP enviroment.
The less significant factor one from many more is:
encouraging to not indentify players with their character needs and behaviour, because even if player own the character, he is not that character and this word has to be spreaded, so that RPers won't be on worse position (IMHO we have already achieved it pretty much)




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zanzibar

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Re: Save the Evil Ones
« Reply #79 on: September 18, 2006, 03:36:39 pm »
Well, there is a solution:  Make it so that it's NPC's who are robbed and who are murdered.  A player could die, but only if he had volounteered to be a body guard for example.
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witchking

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Re: Save the Evil Ones
« Reply #80 on: September 19, 2006, 04:30:46 am »
Mmmmmmmmmm... evil...  :devil:

Where do I start?

Ok, it's obvious that it is very difficult to implement RP'ing an evil character without being misunderstood for OOC griefing. Not that the "tree huggers" are always pleasant. They can get overbearing and annoying at times.

The game also does not make it easy to look and be evil. Even a Klyros, being a fairly good potential with an "evilish" looking expression, has in its description that it is not an evil race despite its appearances. Sheesh! That leaves Diaboli. But yet, in almost every single post concerning their evil ways, some people will jump in and argue to death that they are "not necessarily evil and can very well be good". That is even after being pointed to a quote that Diaboli are a malicious race from its description. Sheesh! What's wrong with having a truely evil race? It is a fantasy after all... Look at sci-fi and "Aliens" by Giger, for example...

I strongly believe that the best approach to being evil is NPC/quest interaction and simply looking evil through one's gear. For example, create quests that can be solved through different approaches - good and evil. A good character may run an errand for someone to obrain a certain item, while an evil one can slaughter (if they're strong enough) either the initial NPC or one of the key NPCs in a quest to obtain either a final item or a key item in completing a quest. In order to avoid preventing good characters from talking to a key NPC, which could be slaughtered by evil ones, create instances and/or short spawn times.

If that isn't suitable, then create evil NPCs that demand immoral and evil acts in order to obtain an item/gear/etc. Good characters naturally can avoid agreeing to such quests, while evil ones will probably avoid completing sickeningly good and moral quests. Sure, certain items then will not be obtainable but that does not mean that one or the other will be overpowering. Make the items comparable in stats or give different but unique/rare abilities that balance each other. If it's an armor or a weapon piece, make them look evil and good accordingly.

That brings up a point - there is nothing wrong with looking evil. Anything from your face to your armor/clothing. I understand that some people prefer to be a "wolf in sheep's clothing" but I certainly like "wearing my evil" proudly. There is also nothing wrong with picking Black Flame or Laanx as your religions, as both are quite suitable for being evil. In fact, it would be a shame not to see that potential tapped. That's what they are there for. It would be perfectly fine if certain armors/clothing and/or weapons had description such as, "Corrupted Plate of Black Flame" or "Blessed Plate of Talad" and so on. And, of course, you can only wear those specific unique items if you picked an appropriate religion. Atheists can have their own specific gear too. I'm not saying that ALL gear should have those requirements, just some occassional unique or rare items.

All of that also does not mean that being an evil character you have to walk around and laugh manically, like "Muahahahaha!". In fact, I like to keep my cool. Even if there doesn't seem to be a good opportunity to RP an evil character at a time, simply looking evil is quite satisfying. Don't tell me you wouldn't like looking like this, if you're an evil magic user:



I very much doubt you would mistake this guy as someone to confess your sins to.

There are exceptions, of course. For example, if a female Diaboli 3D model will turn out to be as hot as their description page says, then a devious looking "dominatrix" type character with a whip (the game supports whips, luckily, woohoo!) might be a fun combo.

And don't tell me you'd believe the character below was good, even if he offered to help you carry your basket of flowers:



How about this for a local tour guide?  :P



Once again, I understand that some "evil" RP'ers like to look "good", as in to be deceptive that they're "good" but really are "evil". But in games like these, it's very easy to be mistaken for griefing. You can still tread that path, of course, if you like. But what if I don't feel like explaining and spelling it out that I'm "evil" every time I want to RP? Just the act itself sucks the fun out of it. Sometimes simply looking evil, even if I'm not RP'ing at all, and showing up and intimidating the "good" characters with my looks, without saying a word, is quite satisfying.

It is no wonder that people like evil looking characters because good can get so incredibly boring... (keep in mind, I'm talking "fantasy evil" here, not "real life evil").

Another suggestion would be to have your character physically change in appearance as he commits more evil deeds (no, I'm not talking about the same thing as in the "aging" thread on this forum). For example, your skin color may start changing, your eyes may become more and more red or black etc. Diaboli may have their horns grow out further. Facial expressions can become more and more grim. Bodies can become more twisted in some ways. If more voices, such as during combat, are implimented, then evil characters can develop more evil sounding voices. And so on...

Just to give an example of the above, in an MMO called "Warhammer Online", an Orc starts out green but as he gains in levels, his skin becomes more and more dark, until he reaches the ultimate "Black Orc". Since there are no levels in PS, the changes can be based on the amount of evil deeds, be it through NPC interaction and quests or wearing certain "evil items".

I also would like to see more dark and gritty areas like these to balance the peaceful looking ones (Death Realm is fine but I'm talking about the areas not limited to it):



Take your time to watch this trailer and pay attention to character races in it:

http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/video/easterEggs/WAR_Promo_081606.html

http://mythic.fileburst.com/war/media/WAR_Trailer_FINAL_46meg.zip (direct download of the .avi)

Every race in the above trailer is a playable race. As you can see, you certainly won't mistake good and evil in them. Pay specific attention to the last battle scene and the Chaos warrior (hint: the evil looking guy). What I'm referring to here is not the fact that they're fighting but how each race looks, sounds and what they wear. I believe that would make it a lot easier to RP one or the other. Sure, appearances can be deceiving, as I said before, and you can still attempt to play a demonic looking flower collector or angelic looking murderer. But appearances also count, and with truely evil appearances an evil RP would be more expected and understood rather than otherwise.

Take a look at this other trailer and see if you can spot the evil and good easily  ;)

http://www.markofchaos.com/videos.php?clip=1#top

Basically, my point is what good is evil if you cannot share it with others?  :D And same goes for good... I personally like sharing it through appearances, when RP doesn't seem like a good option.

It's good to be evil.  8)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2006, 09:18:47 am by witchking »

DeathsAngel

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Re: Save the Evil Ones
« Reply #81 on: September 19, 2006, 01:13:30 pm »
Even if many things have been said I'd like to add my point.

Quote from: daehaz
Since I started playing (about 6 months ago), I think I could use my fingers to count evil characters
Not all of the evil characters publicly shows or directly present themselves as being "evil".  Don't forget that an evil character is not really evil for him but only acting as his will tells him, so the "evil/good" doesn't mean the same.

But the point there is that I know some evil characters but they prefer to play it behind people, away from undesirable sight, and with the fall of Dark Crystal, DE Restructuring, The Soulless drop, evil characters have dramatically drop.

Sometimes people don’t look at the right place, or at the right moment.


I also tried (and others did before me) to make alliance or at least make something big with evil characters but people tend to create them as being so much «I am stronger, you obey or I kill you» that evil characters doesn't want to cooperate with them and the players decides to avoid them.
Yes of course it is normal for evil characters not to be easy and they prefer to lead and don’t like to be lead. But that's only ONE of the many types of evil characters. Too much people focus on it.

What do I know of that? For 2 and a half year now I was a DM (D&D world of course) for an evil campaign, hard to maintain, a challenge, but great moments of role-playing.

Hope you will see my point as something helpful.

Sorry I wrote this message in a hurry before class.

Peacer

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Re: Save the Evil Ones
« Reply #82 on: September 20, 2006, 01:36:49 am »
in the current state of affairs a evil character really can't do anything beside insulting someone[ ie: backstabing, murdering, kidnapping, torturing, etc...not posiible exept with the accord of the other player]

get creative... rp'ing doesn't have to be supported by game mechanics... if you truly are a good evil player you wouldn't need theese very much

@witchangel: no... interacting too much with npc's and quests doesn't make a rp'ing game... the players do the idea with skinchanging when doing more evil is good... but with npc's is a nono and could easily just be used for powerlevelling further. Nice pictures btw though
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zanzibar

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Re: Save the Evil Ones
« Reply #83 on: September 20, 2006, 09:02:19 am »
get creative... rp'ing doesn't have to be supported by game mechanics...


This is coming from the guy who roleplays that he can make bottomless pits appear underneath people he doesn't like.
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Peacer

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Re: Save the Evil Ones
« Reply #84 on: September 20, 2006, 09:08:46 am »
get creative... rp'ing doesn't have to be supported by game mechanics...


This is coming from the guy who roleplays that he can make bottomless pits appear underneath people he doesn't like.

who said i rp'ed it :P did it to a friend yesterday cause he stole my launch.
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RilucH

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Re: Save the Evil Ones
« Reply #85 on: September 20, 2006, 12:25:27 pm »
I see Peacer just today appearing through a wall at Brado's tavern cellar - how is it?

No posts in all caps.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 01:22:16 pm by Karyuu »
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Peacer

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Re: Save the Evil Ones
« Reply #86 on: September 20, 2006, 02:08:35 pm »
I see Peacer just today appearing through a wall at Brado's tavern cellar - how is it?

No posts in all caps.

* Peacer looks confuzzled at riluch

hmm i saw you were nearly dead and rushed to the rescue from the roof... when i got there you had been killed by a rat :(
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