Suspend Death...

[Under the moon]

No, not as in get rid of it, just delay it for a bit.

The what: I do not know if there are any plans for something like this, but it would add something to the feel of the game. What I suggest, is for death not to be instant when your health runs out. Rather, it would be much more interesting if you would be knocked out for a time. Not long, but long enough for someone to revive you before a trip to the DR.

The why: This does two things. One, it promotes teamwork and roleplaying. Healers would have a much bigger role, as bringing someone back to life would be a hard earned skill. It also gives the "you saved me!" aspect greater meaning. Second, it saves on annoying trips to the DR, which is hard to roleplay as it is.

The when: Not any time soon, likely, but something to think on.

The limits: To prevent silliness, there would have to be three limits. One, the number of times a healer can resurrect in an hour or so, based on skill level. Two, a time limit between deaths on a player, so that a person can't be brought back every ten seconds. Three, no rez on /die. The gods frown on such things.

Possible ways: One: A click spell, as all other magics are done now. Not very interesting. Two: The healer actually follows the victim into a limbo (not the stick game) ‘room’ halfway between life and death. The healer then needs to complete a short, but intense task, and get the victim to follow them back. It is up to the victim to actually do this. An option for this would also be to ‘trade places’ with the victim if the task is failed, and the healer can choose to die in their place.

[dying_inside]

I just think spells should have a cooldown. Resusrection would have an extremely long cool down. 3-5 mins?
Or maybe cool downs are too generic for where the Dev team wants to take PS?

[zanzibar]

I'm pretty sure DaveG has something almost exactly like that planned out.  Once it's in the game, things will be interesting because it will give the devs a licence to make the creatures in the game more dangerous.  It will make spellcasters more important and it will encourage teamwork.

[Nikodemus]

Would be really good to have this feature.
To add somethink to it:
When your HP drop below 0% if it drop below -30% because of one hit or contunued its, you are trully dead. If it is beatwen 0% and -30% then you are unable to fight at all and need medical assistance. The closer you are to -30% (only because of the hits), the more you bleed. Your opponent may still choose to kill once you are below 0%HP, but only if he is not fighting with someone else, for example you friend, who won't allow any hits attempts go in your direction .
Also, everytime you are helped by medic (when you are beatwen 0% and -30%) your total Hit Points are decreased by half due to your worse condition. This way you can't be revived all the time, because you are risking that someone or somethink hit you so unforunately that you just die as the 0%--30% are is smaller and smaller. To regeneate this penalty, you need some good place to rest (not in the middle of nowhere, but eg by the fire and at mattress) and rest there few hours (offline time counts).

This is only rought example, as i know devs don't like implementing ready ideas fro forums. But maybe my example will help

[Ralleyon]

@UtM

This does not seem to be one of those things easy to implement, but the idea is great. Hope the devs will pluck some some ideas from this, it is definitely worthwhile. Now, I would like to hijack this wish a little and add some more things the that reviving part, but mostly from the other perspective, while someone is already "dead".

... it saves on annoying trips to the DR, which is hard to roleplay as it is.

1. Perhaps the DR can be tweaked a little, so that it doesn't feel so "alive". Right now, it's creepy, yes, but not devoid of life as one would expect. Pehaps while in the DR, the char can be a little transparent, or have an eerie glow, so as to appear as a spirit, so the trip to life sounds more like a spiritual one.

2. When coming back from the DR (through that portal), the spawn point should be the place where you actually died, perhaps even adding some animation to the (self)reviving part.

3. And coming back to the topic - excellent healers, or those in possession of a special glyph (like a life glyph) may be able to actually bring people back from the dead (even after their soul has passed in the Death Realm), but with some life drain consequences on them as well.

[Cyl]

While I do like the idea, I would preffer something like Nikodemus' suggestion. My idea would be, that when either the avatar's health drops below a certain treshold, depending on his will (Take a look at the stats description ...), or gets a very hard hit, again depending on his will, he is knocked unconcious, thus being unable to fight or move. In this stadium he begins to bleed to death, thus loosing a certain ammount of health per second, any enemy could also take the chance to "Coup de Grace" you. Any healer (useing magic or not) could save the victim from bleeding to death...

[Under the moon]

I was thinking the same thing as I was writing, but was hesitant to bring in the "FINISH HIM!" aspect, as that would have lead to a discussion on combat. So yes, the idea is for Players to have the choice to finish each other off, while mobs would not. After you fall in combat, the creature would leave you alone for a bit to give time for a healing. Or...just to make things interesting, the creature starts to drag you off if it is hungry. Then, it also becomes a rescue mission.

The % -0 is a good idea that I had considered as well. Perhaps combine that with a time limit, so that once you are in the negative (or maybe a separate 'death' bar) your health continues to decline. -1% per second or two would be a good number to start with, but modified by player stats such as Strength and Will. Some items could slow this degradation with magic or bandages. If a healer starts to work on the injured, the countdown stops. I still like the idea of the healer and victim entering a limbo realm together for a short 'miniquest' that may not be successful.

Perhaps actions could still be used after -0%.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
-30 dead -20 passed out -10 incapacitated 0 mortally wounded

-0 to -9 a player can /yell for help and apply bandages themselves. Magic can not be done, as you are too weak. You can crawl. You may also attack just once at half your usual powers. But all these actions will atract the attention of the creature that defeated you, and it may come back to finish you off. Healing can be a quick click-spell, herbs, or potions at this point that new healers will know or have. You have to have some training in the skill to use them.

-10 to -19 a player can only /say. Crawling is slowed down, or in starts and stops. You no longer have the strength to bandage yourself. Healers have to be more advanced in their learning to bring someone back, but it is still a click-spell. For non- mages, the herbs or potions that can be used are more rare, and take much more knowledge to use.

-20 to -29 a player can do nothing. Healers have to be very advanced, and it now takes a special spell that brings you to a quest. The 'quest' to bring the player back is activated, and both players' 'spirits' are transported to the limbo, while their bodies remain where they were. That means they are both open to attack by mobs. This will encourage three person hunting groups. Herbs and potions are no longer of use. The healer is in no danger inside the limbo, and both players must work together to complete the task needed to prevent death. It is not always a success.

-30 to -45 a player is dead...but not lost. There are two last hopes for them. If a healer has achieved a certain level of healing skill, and has completed a very long and hard quest, then the healer can follow the dead directly into the deathrealm, and complete a short -but hard- challenge/quest/item exchange/something with the Guardian. If won, both players return to life, and whatever health the healer had is split between the two of them. If lost, they both stay in the DR. More than one healer can do this at once, making it easier.

The second hope is for the healer to exchange places with the dead. This is a skill that can only be used ONCE, then must be relearned through a quest.

Less than -45%, there is no way to bring the player back. Trying will kill the healer.

[zanzibar]

I don't like the idea of rescue missions.  It seems like the person who needs to be rescued would get bored pretty quickly.  And it seems like a good way to get "stuck" in the game, unless you still have the option of using the /die command... but not everyone will realize that option is there.

[Nikodemus]

All nice ideas Under the moon.
From one side they are very detailed, but from other side lack of logic ;P I mean, this is all thought for only one purpose. To have fun in strictly RP sense. It isn't bad, but this way there are a lot holes in it, what may lead to weird ooc behaviour when someone try to explain why things are the way they are ;P
Someone would have to fix the holes beatwen the ideas and modify, maybe a lot. maybe a work just for a dev who is looking for inspiration, heh (like with all in wishlist).

What i really don't like:
Why creatures wouldn't kill you? Why did they attacked you in the first place? ;P Well, if you attacked them, its probably normal the animal will defend and once save, will run away. But the animal could as well think about eating you no matter what. So you are going to die and as you don't have friend near, you are going to have nice trip through DR. (but as we al are supposed to be heroes and basing on the original DR idea, once you die, a barrier form around your body and whoever try to touch it, die too, so the animal suprised will leave your appearently doomed body ;P
Before, I made the comment that you can't be taken off after fatally wounded, if your friend is fighting the same foe as you were (your friend just wont allow this to happen), but otherwise you are on the mercy of your opponent and often there is no mercy.

Also, there really shouldnt be some /yell, no matter if its PC or NPC. Duels are already weird. Sometimes its even like the duel is treated like a real duel, I mean, like a duel beatwen some knights with honor and rules. Like there was no place for simple fights for people with no rules.

Hmmm, I hope i was constructive.

[Mindari]

i remember someone once sugesting that the attacking palyer should have a choice whether to kill or just knock down the victim, in duels. in player vs. monster combat though, i think that you should be considered dead once defeated, because a wild animal obviously has no sense of honour, morals, e.t.c

[The Shadow Nose]

A few ideas:

After the players HP hits zero [and is bove -30%] they collapse and can't do any actions.

If there are monsters around they may act differently towards collapsed players.

Rats and Clackers are scavengers that will be attracted to dying targets to eat them. They cause additional damage that may kill the player if left unstopped.

Tefusangs, Trepors, and Ulbernaughts are hunters that attack creatures and then eat them. Trepors might do something like lay eggs on collapsed characters so that the eggs hatch into baby Trepors who act as scavengers until they grow up into big ones.

Rogues are muggers, they beat up players and when they collapse will /loot them for tria or items. Then they move away to let the player recover or die... the rogue doesn't care which but if they recover the rogue may loot them again.

Gladiators could just beat players until they collapse and then ignore them. Gladiator code not letting them attack defenceless targets or whatever.


Dying characters may be able to recover if they have plenty of endurance and will. It would take a while to recover by normal regeneration but possible for really tough characters. But even really tough ones would be in trouble if a rat or other animal decides to lunch on them.



As for bringing people out from the Death Realm... Perhaps a powerful spell in which you name the person like "/cast revive dead Joe_Deadguy". The dead player then gets a window asking if they wish to be brought to life, if they accept they are returned to life either at their natural spawn point or near the person that revived them. If they refuse the person casting loses the mana they use to cast the spell and nothing happens, same if they try reviving a living player or one that doesn't exist.

A guild could conceivably set up a Death Realm transit system if the player is brought to life near the caster... I don't see much harm in it. But no matter how the spell is set up, if it lets players help eachother then its a good thing.

[Under the moon]

I don't like the idea of rescue missions.  It seems like the person who needs to be rescued would get bored pretty quickly.  And it seems like a good way to get "stuck" in the game, unless you still have the option of using the /die command... but not everyone will realize that option is there.

Zanzi, my friend, where do you see me say that any of this would take a long time? Once you are 'mortally wounded', you have a minute or two at most before you get to see your good friend, Death. More likely 30 to 45 seconds. The dragging away was just a short spurt of an idea that I threw out there as something that might be interesting, but would only last those same 45 seconds. And the rescue in the limbo, or the DR chalenge would only last minutes at most, and involve both players. There would be no 'stuck' nor boredom.

From one side they are very detailed, but from other side lack of logic I mean, this is all thought for only one purpose. To have fun in strictly RP sense. It isn't bad, but this way there are a lot holes in it, what may lead to weird ooc behaviour when someone try to explain why things are the way they are ;P

Lack logic? Holes? I don't see what you mean. I think out ideas from all sides, including the side I am opposed to. The logic is based on real life and game mechanics. As to people explaining weird things ooc, most everything in the game right now has to be explained in some manner that is not completely IC. The DR, spawn points, making weapons, instant potions, mining, why everyone looks the same, etc. I don't see where this idea has to be explained OOC. If a person is hurt, you have a certain amount of time to help them befor they die. The more hurt they are, the more skill in healing you need. And I am not talking about the game. Just a fact of life. The only thing that is a little odd is the last two points in my idea. But that is where the realm of fantisy and magic take over. I see no ooc in any of that. Please point out where you do.

And for the "fun in strictly RP sense", I see your comment as the opposite of the mood this would create. It would give healers an action based role in the game, something much needed. It would add more teamwork to combat. Right now, this feels like a one player game, just with many other in it at the same time. I would add fun to both RP and action, plus give quite a tip of the hat to leveling as well.

Even if it did add fun just to RP, I give you exibit A: "First of all PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game." -- quote from http://www.planeshift.it/about.html

Someone would have to fix the holes beatwen the ideas and modify, maybe a lot.

Yes. The existing system is flawed a lot, and needs fixing. My idea has some flaws that would be fixed.

What i really don't like:
Why creatures wouldn't kill you? Why did they attacked you in the first place? ;P Well, if you attacked them, its probably normal the animal will defend and once save, will run away. But the animal could as well think about eating you no matter what.

There is a very easy answer to that. In real life, a creature often leaves a person alone once they think that person is dead. That is not to say it always happens. Why do they do this, rather than killing and eating us? Animals attack because they feel -they- are in danger, or they are hungry. Once you are laying on the ground, and they think you dead, you are no longer dangerous in their eyes. That is not my opinion, it is a fact of nature. As to why they do not eat us, it is commonly thought we just don't taste good. Or, we are not their normal food source. Animals are creatures of habit, and do not like to change those habits.

In PS terms, the creatures would not try to eat you because of the magic aura that surrounds you when dead. They would simply grow tired of trying, no matter how hungry they were. That leaves protecting their territory and a feeling of danger as motivation. Once you are down, dead or not, they will stop. That is unless you move or speak. You then become a threat again.

So you are going to die and as you don't have friend near, you are going to have nice trip through DR.

Of course. My idea is based on that, and creating more teamwork.

 

but otherwise you are on the mercy of your opponent and often there is no mercy.

Again, no arguement there. But what if your opponent -does- wish to give mercy? What if they want to bring you back to life? There is no support for that. If the winner does not wish to give mercy, then there would be the 'finish off' command, or just watch the fallen die. But the choice is nice to have.

Also, there really shouldnt be some /yell, no matter if its PC or NPC. Duels are already weird. Sometimes its even like the duel is treated like a real duel, I mean, like a duel beatwen some knights with honor and rules. Like there was no place for simple fights for people with no rules.

I don't see where this comes into play at all. The duel is game mechanics, pure and simple. The reason for the duel is roleplay, also pure and simple. Falling and yelling for help is roleplaying that is alowed by game mechanics. To take that out, and also the choice to give mercy or not is taking roleplay out of the equation. Refer to exhibit A again.

i remember someone once sugesting that the attacking palyer should have a choice whether to kill or just knock down the victim, in duels. in player vs. monster combat though, i think that you should be considered dead once defeated, because a wild animal obviously has no sense of honour, morals, e.t.c

Again, animals do not have morals, only instinct. Instinct does not command them to kill, just to think they killed, or drive off an intruder. And I do not think 45 seconds is to long to wait for death. It is much more real than fighting with all your power until you run out of that last HP %, then you are dead.

@The Shadow Nose: That last part is too close to how it is done in WoW. Don't scare me. Not only that, quick-click-spells should not be done for something as bad as death. It reduces it to nothing.

In RP addition to the above, a bad person will mortally wound you without remorse and walk away. A really bad person will stay to watch as you die.

edit: I consider all of Zanzi's posts after this to be only vaguely on topic, bordering on spam, and very much passive-aggressive trolling. Therefore, he shall be ignored, saving the members of the community from yet another of his pointless arguments filled with masterful out-of-context quoting. I will ask that any further baiting be removed. Have a nice day.

[Under the moon]

Then I invite you to ignore the wishes of those trying to help you, and take the very interesting trip through the DR for the hundredth time. I am sure it takes less than two minutes. But will it always?

[Cyl]

I don't like the idea of rescue missions.  It seems like the person who needs to be rescued would get bored pretty quickly.  And it seems like a good way to get "stuck" in the game, unless you still have the option of using the /die command... but not everyone will realize that option is there.

Zanzi, my friend, where do you see me say that any of this would take a long time? Once you are 'mortally wounded', you have a minute or two at most before you get to see your good friend, Death. More likely 30 to 45 seconds. The dragging away was just a short spurt of an idea that I threw out there as something that might be interesting, but would only last those same 45 seconds. And the rescue in the limbo, or the DR chalenge would only last minutes at most, and involve both players. There would be no 'stuck' nor boredom.

Being stuck for as long as two minutes sounds pretty boring to me, old chap.

You could still have the petty old /die command ....

[Nikodemus]

Hah, you got me half wrong Under the Moon ;P but i thought it will be that way. As i always try to make posts short 10% i comment maybe on what i like and 90% of what i dont ;P. While i may like 80% of the posts and only 20% don't like ;P (like now)

Every part you quoted and commented, i will give a number in the same order.

1)Yeah, most things don't lack logic. I only couldn't undestand why animal will automaticaly leave you and not kill (about this later).
The /yell, i understand it is within PS mechanics, but no matter how you look at it, its ooc. How the hell explain the winner that he can't kill you because you are begging for mercy? Both /challange and /yell are to avoid griefing. I don't like expending this furher in gam, but rather build realistic ideas, which prove that pvp is possible without griefing. I suppose just you like expanding already existing system, what i gues is ok.
The part with completing very hard quest. Why it has to be a quest? like the only way to learn some skill. I mean, reality is far more complex. We have a lot options when we want to achieve somethink. Latere, the healer is becoming like rescuer. I would like to have separate terms for bother of them. Healer - a guy who heal in traditional way, Rescuer - someone who help you get out from DR.

The second hope is for the healer to exchange places with the dead. This is a skill that can only be used ONCE, then must be relearned through a quest.

Another skill through a quest only? As i read more, it doesnt sound like a skill. You don't loose skills. Its more like information, or pact of one time use.

The rest ideas are really nice.

2) Yup, and devs don't like ready ideas, so it is even better.

3) I pointed out, how the aimals may react
 a) attacked, will run away
 b) attacked, will think about eating you
 c) attack you, because is hungry
There are far more reactions, but really, it is not always that the animal won't kill you. In real it happens an animal eat human and it was more common in past days.
There are diferent animals, each behalve a bit different and has different needs.
The death aura... if every Yliakean has it, then obviously animals will never attack to eat or try to eat because of some reason. But maybe only our player played characters has it, as they are supposed to be heroes. Animal doesn't know who will have aura and who won't.

4) So we agree

5) Its completly what i mean. The winner can choose. He can even help his opponent, everything is possible.

6) I explained in 1)