Author Topic: PvP - I need more informations  (Read 2120 times)

Jossnaz

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PvP - I need more informations
« on: September 20, 2006, 02:20:07 am »
Hello

What i need is more informations concerning PvP.

Are guild wars possible? (example: the guild stinkyfingers declares war to the guild teddybears, teddybears accept the challenge -> each member is possible to punch the others down.

Looting..? what drops if I kill somebody? (best answer: everything, even what is in backpack. Everything else is for girls, if I want a game where dieing doesnt matter I go and play quake or cs)

Is there some kind of mirror-world like in ultima online, where you can port to and kill everybody without "guards" ?

Are there some kind of good guilds, and bad guilds which can battle always?

I've been playing ultima online for a long time, i played everquest and world of warcraft too.
What i learned is that pvp is the best fun, and best fun was in UO.

Of course, somebody who wants to be without pvp should have to get a way to avoid it or the punishment must be great for being a big ass killing innocent people (like lots of money on the head and a flag where every guard goes and kills you if you get close.)

thank you guys


Keyaz

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2006, 02:25:10 am »
you can challeneg someone to a duel yes. advisedly ask them to duel first

guilds can declare war and have a battle, preferably out of the cities,

other then that, i dont think this is what you are looking for, this is still in the very early satges of development, doesn't have half the things you arel ooking for, and never will, Planeshift is idealised around roleplaying, being your character and immersing yourself in a world completely different from our own.

now, someone smarter will come along andm ake a better post :)

Karyuu

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2006, 02:29:19 am »
Hello! Welcome to PlaneShift and the boards :]

Are guild wars possible? (example: the guild stinkyfingers declares war to the guild teddybears, teddybears accept the challenge -> each member is possible to punch the others down.

That's exactly how it works.

Quote
Looting..? what drops if I kill somebody? (best answer: everything, even what is in backpack. Everything else is for girls, if I want a game where dieing doesnt matter I go and play quake or cs)

"Everything else is for girls"..? Not the best intro you can make here. When you kill someone in a duel, they don't drop anything. You don't get anything from their inventory, as they take their items to the Death Realm with them. That might change somehow in the future, but not yet. Monsters do drop skins, parts, weapons if they have them, etc.

Quote
Is there some kind of mirror-world like in ultima online, where you can port to and kill everybody without "guards" ?

Are you looking for a PvP game? This isn't it. PlaneShift isn't about going nuts and freaking out over everyone - it's about roleplay. All the combat you can have with other players at the moment must be agreed to by both sides - you challenge someone, and they can either accept or refuse. There is no open PvP here right now.

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Are there some kind of good guilds, and bad guilds which can battle always?

There are no constant wars - presumably because no one's interested in fighting all the time ;] I think that perhaps this is the wrong game for you.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 02:30:56 am by Karyuu »
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Jossnaz

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2006, 02:54:06 am »
""Everything else is for girls"..? Not the best intro you can make here."


well  of course, a duell isn't thought to make you lose all your equipment, thats for sure.

"PlaneShift isn't about going nuts and freaking out over everyone - it's about roleplay."
Roleplay means to me it is a little bit realistic too - to me at least -, I can imagine very well that if I die my soul goes to a place where it can get revived. But getting revived with all items I was carrying? Okay, if a monster kills me and some idiot steals my stuff i'm sad, alright, so this must not happen. But I played Ultima Online with exactly this at the beginning. It was simply a different feeling if you realize that you could lose against this wolf you are fighting and somebody is watching. If this guy stole my stuff he got flagged (free for everybody to kill, guards autokilled him) and lost honor. If he stole often enough he became flagged for ever. Killing innocent people brought you faster to that point. But well I understand, this must not happen, just keep it to a controllable field -> guild wars without item drops? If I want to play a game where I can fight, die and get revived after 20 seconds I play quake... oh well, even there you lose your weapons.

let's imagine you're a miner just mining your ore and selling them so you earn money, when you don't mine, you go hunting some monsters with friends. Well, the monsters aren't too clever, and after let's say two years of gaming you have so much money, you begin asking what to do with it what could be fun. Well, buying a castle sounds not funny enough to me, after hanging some months there and having parties, what will you do? What challenge is there? Fighting some stupid monster for which you need rare equipment? thats wow, that's boring, that's like working.
Running against guild enemies, die - ressurect - die - resurrect.... I just don't understand, why is everybody afraid of losing his equipment and his backpack after dieing if you can chose to be in battle?
No item drops is no real battle, I was present in WoW with thousands of kills, it's just no fun compared to an organized attack on your guild enemies in the main town
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 03:01:32 am by Jossnaz »

Karyuu

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2006, 02:56:13 am »
You have to remember that PlaneShift is just at version 0.3 - we're far from complete, and many of the suggestions our players make we would absolutely love to have as well. We just can't do everything at once, especially while we're still building the skeleton of the game.
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
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Keyaz

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2006, 02:58:36 am »
hmm, go play quake, go play guild wars, go play WoW

oh, and don't knock planeshift, it is challenging, quite so that it keeps me interested despite all these 'fabarooie' games all about.

I need a rubber mallet to bludgeon people with.. ooh can i get one with a heart shape on it? so it imprints on their foreheads? that would be soo cool! ^^

Jossnaz

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2006, 03:02:57 am »
i see

RayvenD

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2006, 03:14:17 am »
I think this guy^^ now thinks everyone here is crazy....
Let it whip!

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Suno_Regin

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2006, 04:20:00 am »
People like that come to this game because it's the only free game that has more races than just humans.

Kiirani

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2006, 04:39:03 am »
I think this guy^^ now thinks everyone here is crazy....

Mm. No it's really just Dem..

I wouldn't mind open pvp, as long as the laws on killing other people were as strict as they are here on earth. Strict enough that it's just not profitable as a profession for the average person, and you have to be truly evil/insane to do it. Kill another person and the punishment is your life, whether you give it up by dying or by spending the rest of it in a cell, it's your life. On those laws, I wouldn't be surprised to see it happening in planeshift, eventually.
However I don't think it should happen any time soon. There's just no way I could see it being correctly enforced at this point in development, and the last thing we want is for someone to be able to stab another character in the throat in the middle of a crowd, and have nothing happen to them (>_>).

So, at the moment -

If you want your character to be a murderer, RP it as a murderer.. You don't NEED the ability to fight and kill other players openly with the actual game system.

If you don't, then you probably just want to kill other players to be an arse, or because they have better loot than monsters (see: arse)..  You definitely don't need to be doing that, and we don't need you to either. So if that's the case, go away :)

Edited for language.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 04:50:24 am by Karyuu »

Jossnaz

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2006, 10:23:28 pm »
I just wonder how rough the answers are here.

i've been playing ultima online for years and started playing it some time ago again. But well, the graphics are so old, it's impossible to really enjoy the atmosphere again.. compared to the time were  I was used to rendered sprites which have exactly 1 picturechange if you change direction by 90 degrees and have like 3 pictures if you shoot a crossbow.
have a look
http://images.mmorpg.com/images/screenshots/022003/421.jpg

Ultima Online has its entry in wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_online

Did someone here play Ultima Online?

It's always the same with the question of open pvp... the huge majority of people become afraid, start to shake their heads, saying that they only want to play their rpg style and are afraid of getting killed with full pockets.
Well, I guess the majority of people never played UO.  I'd say, PVP with item drops is one of the biggest fun of the MMORPG, it's a never ending fun.

"However I don't think it should happen any time soon. There's just no way I could see it being correctly enforced at this point in development, and the last thing we want is for someone to be able to stab another character in the throat in the middle of a crowd, and have nothing happen to them (>_>)."

well I don't know how far the development of the game is, but when would you ever say something like: "now we want someone be able to stab another without smth happening to him"?

in which language is the game written?


Keyaz

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2006, 01:45:38 am »
PvP with item drops being the biggest part of the fun of an MMORPG is your opinion, you and many others, but it's unlikely many here would agree with it, this is generally because with good intentions of an enjoyable realistic experience, where you would lose stuff being killed, there are those griefers set out to do just that for their own greed or just to annoy other players.

Planeshift's PvP Duelling is set in a way that you shoudl ideally roleplay into the duel first, ie, bumping into someone and having an arguement, that spilling out into a brawl.

I'll be damned if I have to put up with peopel runnign around going "any1 wanna duel?" and spamming duel requests at me >_>

Kiirani

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2006, 09:09:44 am »
This isn't ultima online. It never will be ultima online. We don't care about how great ultima online was. Please, stop talking about ultima online, this is planeshift.

Well, I guess the majority of people never played UO.  I'd say, PVP with item drops is one of the biggest fun of the MMORPG, it's a never ending fun.

To be honest, i can't agree with you here. I don't consider killing other people and stealing their items to be "fun". I believe anyone who does so in reality deserves to be locked up for life, and I believe the same of any character who does so in an RP world. Put their head on a stake outside the gates to hydlaa. Spread the pieces of their body across the world, curse their souls to an eternity of damnation, etc etc.

It's always the same with the question of open pvp... the huge majority of people become afraid, start to shake their heads, saying that they only want to play their rpg style and are afraid of getting killed with full pockets.

I find it unrealistic to kill someone and pick up everything they own. People in the real world have houses with most of their posessions in them and banks with most of their money in them. If you kill a person in real life, you'll probably get their car keys, their credit cards and a bit of cash. Maybe the clothes they're wearing if you're that desperate. You won't get an address for their house to fetch their belongings, or their bank pin to get their money. So why should you get EVERYTHING if you kill someone in a game?

Of course, I also find it unrealistic for someone to 'die' and respawn a while later with all their items intact :/  There has to be middle ground. I think it's possible to find it, but I doubt the solution that would please most of the community would please you at all. 

"However I don't think it should happen any time soon. There's just no way I could see it being correctly enforced at this point in development, and the last thing we want is for someone to be able to stab another character in the throat in the middle of a crowd, and have nothing happen to them (>_>)."

well I don't know how far the development of the game is, but when would you ever say something like: "now we want someone be able to stab another without smth happening to him"?

Nobody would ever say that in this game, but the fact is, at this stage of development, (alpha, v0.3),  any way of enforcing laws against murder would be buggy at best, most likely it wouldn't work at all. So if open PVP were added at this point, even if it were in a way that pleases the majority of the community, it would probably end up being possible for idiots to run around killing anyone they choose OOC and taking all of their items anyway :/ I can't see anybody here being happy with that outcome, An open PVP system would need to be stable from the start, and remain consistently stable throughout the entire life of the game. Until it's at the stage where that's possible, I can't see it happening, and honestly don't want to.

I don't think anyone in this community wants people to come in and level their character up just to be able to run around killing anyone they like just for their loot without care for the RP side of it. Like I said before, as in real life, a player's character would have to be very evil or very unstable to consider murdering an innocent person, and the punishment would have to be very, very severe.

Jossnaz

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2006, 02:16:54 pm »
"To be honest, i can't agree with you here. I don't consider killing other people and stealing their items to be "fun". "

which brings me back to one of my original posts. Play the game for 2 years, harvest all the money you can get. Find the strongest weapons in the most secret hidden places and the most valuable items.
After you bought your castle and filled it to the top with gold and heads of gigantic monsters. What are you gonna do? What is there what brings you fun? You collected this money, what for?

Don't get me wrong, I said it must be possible to choose, but IF you choose to do real PvP (not a funduel with a friend) it should be with item drops (guild/person 'evil' declares war to guild 'honored', guild 'honored' accepts -> guild war, every guild enemy is free to attack and drops everything he got).

And of course, your bank account cannot drop, nor does your key to the castle.

Thats what I'd do when my castle is full of gold, i'd join a guild who's at war. Then I'd stop running around with my pockets full of gold, I'd take with me exactly what I need, good armor, good weapons, potions and stuff like that. If you die no problem, i'd have some extra armor and weaponsets in my castle.

The biggest challenge for me isn't to gather some mushrooms in a cave for a quest, or to click on a monster so my character beats it up with a club or a spell. The biggest challenge in my opinion is to work as a team of individual characters together against a group of real players, it's where you learn your characterabilities best.

it feels like you are so busy arguing with me and explaining to me that I'm so absolutely wrong and that planeshift is not made for pvp that you don't even try to figure out a good and very basic pvp implementation, which would guarantee long term fun.

Don't get me wrong, I say planeshift is really a good thing that it exists, it's a sad thing that it's obviously too buggy for pvp. But don't forget about pvp, it's not that hard to implement and is big fun. Probably I'll just have to wait and hope.

btw: which programming language is used? Are you looking for developers?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2006, 02:26:26 pm by Jossnaz »

Keyaz

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Re: PvP - I need more informations
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2006, 02:44:34 pm »
we're not arguing against you that PvP is absolutely wrong, try re reading, we simply stated it's not wahts going to happen here

and please, pummel your head until you get ti stuck in there that this is so early in development you would normally never have heard of this stage.

I think everything that could be said has been said already, i'm not seeing dots... just circles