Author Topic: An article on Western Islamophobia  (Read 3880 times)

zanzibar

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An article on Western Islamophobia
« on: September 21, 2006, 03:18:13 am »
This is from today's Guardian:

We cannot afford to maintain these ancient prejudices against Islam

The Pope's remarks were dangerous, and will convince many more Muslims that the west is incurably Islamophobic

Karen Armstrong
Monday September 18, 2006
The Guardian

In the 12th century, Peter the Venerable, Abbot of Cluny, initiated a dialogue with the Islamic world. "I approach you not with arms, but with words," he wrote to the Muslims whom he imagined reading his book, "not with force, but with reason, not with hatred, but with love." Yet his treatise was entitled Summary of the Whole Heresy of the Diabolical Sect of the Saracens and segued repeatedly into spluttering intransigence. Words failed Peter when he contemplated the "bestial cruelty" of Islam, which, he claimed, had established itself by the sword. Was Muhammad a true prophet? "I shall be worse than a donkey if I agree," he expostulated, "worse than cattle if I assent!"


Peter was writing at the time of the Crusades. Even when Christians were trying to be fair, their entrenched loathing of Islam made it impossible for them to approach it objectively. For Peter, Islam was so self-evidently evil that it did not seem to occur to him that the Muslims he approached with such "love" might be offended by his remarks. This medieval cast of mind is still alive and well.

Last week, Pope Benedict XVI quoted, without qualification and with apparent approval, the words of the 14th-century Byzantine emperor Manuel II: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." The Vatican seemed bemused by the Muslim outrage occasioned by the Pope's words, claiming that the Holy Father had simply intended "to cultivate an attitude of respect and dialogue toward the other religions and cultures, and obviously also towards Islam".

But the Pope's good intentions seem far from obvious. Hatred of Islam is so ubiquitous and so deeply rooted in western culture that it brings together people who are usually at daggers drawn. Neither the Danish cartoonists, who published the offensive caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad last February, nor the Christian fundamentalists who have called him a paedophile and a terrorist, would ordinarily make common cause with the Pope; yet on the subject of Islam they are in full agreement.

Our Islamophobia dates back to the time of the Crusades, and is entwined with our chronic anti-semitism. Some of the first Crusaders began their journey to the Holy Land by massacring the Jewish communities along the Rhine valley; the Crusaders ended their campaign in 1099 by slaughtering some 30,000 Muslims and Jews in Jerusalem. It is always difficult to forgive people we know we have wronged. Thenceforth Jews and Muslims became the shadow-self of Christendom, the mirror image of everything that we hoped we were not - or feared that we were.

The fearful fantasies created by Europeans at this time endured for centuries and reveal a buried anxiety about Christian identity and behaviour. When the popes called for a Crusade to the Holy Land, Christians often persecuted the local Jewish communities: why march 3,000 miles to Palestine to liberate the tomb of Christ, and leave unscathed the people who had - or so the Crusaders mistakenly assumed - actually killed Jesus. Jews were believed to kill little children and mix their blood with the leavened bread of Passover: this "blood libel" regularly inspired pogroms in Europe, and the image of the Jew as the child slayer laid bare an almost Oedipal terror of the parent faith.

Jesus had told his followers to love their enemies, not to exterminate them. It was when the Christians of Europe were fighting brutal holy wars against Muslims in the Middle East that Islam first became known in the west as the religion of the sword. At this time, when the popes were trying to impose celibacy on the reluctant clergy, Muhammad was portrayed by the scholar monks of Europe as a lecher, and Islam condemned - with ill-concealed envy - as a faith that encouraged Muslims to indulge their basest sexual instincts. At a time when European social order was deeply hierarchical, despite the egalitarian message of the gospel, Islam was condemned for giving too much respect to women and other menials.

In a state of unhealthy denial, Christians were projecting subterranean disquiet about their activities on to the victims of the Crusades, creating fantastic enemies in their own image and likeness. This habit has persisted. The Muslims who have objected so vociferously to the Pope's denigration of Islam have accused him of "hypocrisy", pointing out that the Catholic church is ill-placed to condemn violent jihad when it has itself been guilty of unholy violence in crusades, persecutions and inquisitions and, under Pope Pius XII, tacitly condoned the Nazi Holocaust.

Pope Benedict delivered his controversial speech in Germany the day after the fifth anniversary of September 11. It is difficult to believe that his reference to an inherently violent strain in Islam was entirely accidental. He has, most unfortunately, withdrawn from the interfaith initiatives inaugurated by his predecessor, John Paul II, at a time when they are more desperately needed than ever. Coming on the heels of the Danish cartoon crisis, his remarks were extremely dangerous. They will convince more Muslims that the west is incurably Islamophobic and engaged in a new crusade.

We simply cannot afford this type of bigotry. The trouble is that too many people in the western world unconsciously share this prejudice, convinced that Islam and the Qur'an are addicted to violence. The 9/11 terrorists, who in fact violated essential Islamic principles, have confirmed this deep-rooted western perception and are seen as typical Muslims instead of the deviants they really were.

With disturbing regularity, this medieval conviction surfaces every time there is trouble in the Middle East. Yet until the 20th century, Islam was a far more tolerant and peaceful faith than Christianity. The Qur'an strictly forbids any coercion in religion and regards all rightly guided religion as coming from God; and despite the western belief to the contrary, Muslims did not impose their faith by the sword.

The early conquests in Persia and Byzantium after the Prophet's death were inspired by political rather than religious aspirations. Until the middle of the eighth century, Jews and Christians in the Muslim empire were actively discouraged from conversion to Islam, as, according to Qur'anic teaching, they had received authentic revelations of their own. The extremism and intolerance that have surfaced in the Muslim world in our own day are a response to intractable political problems - oil, Palestine, the occupation of Muslim lands, the prevelance of authoritarian regimes in the Middle East, and the west's perceived "double standards" - and not to an ingrained religious imperative.

But the old myth of Islam as a chronically violent faith persists, and surfaces at the most inappropriate moments. As one of the received ideas of the west, it seems well-nigh impossible to eradicate. Indeed, we may even be strengthening it by falling back into our old habits of projection. As we see the violence - in Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon - for which we bear a measure of responsibility, there is a temptation, perhaps, to blame it all on "Islam". But if we are feeding our prejudice in this way, we do so at our peril.

ยท Karen Armstrong is the author of Islam: A Short History

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Vengeance

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2006, 07:28:46 am »
I don't think many people lump together regular garden-variety moderate Muslims and extremist death-cult terrorists who happen to cloak themselves in the trappings of Islamism.  This idea that reactions against terrorism and bombings and people shouting "Death to America" can all be labeled "Islamophobia" is really just a form of denial as to what people out there really are fighting against.  There are people that hate the West, hate the way women have rights, hate that a certain country (Israel) exists on the planet, and so forth.  They use the rhetoric of Islam to justify their actions and to incite people to feel righteous in following their cause.

They also consciously use it to take advantage of the multi-cultural white guilt that thinkers like Karen Armstrong appear to wallow in.  If you don't think they are that smart, then perhaps you're a racist.

I'm not Islamophobic.  I'm suicide-bomber-phobic.  No matter the religion or the trappings surrounding it.

- Vengeance

davo

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2006, 03:39:47 pm »
"islamaphobia" sounds like a new word to demonize anyone who speaks out against islam.  people who use it are really just playing right into terrorists hands.

i am worried to an extent by islam.  Its also sad for me personally to see where i am growing up quikly turning largly islamic.

Im obviously not worried about the kind muslims (mostly indonesian) that i work with.

im not just randomly running around bashing peoples heads in or rioting just to 'hate muslims be racist/anti religous blah blah .

I fear for our culture, for our safety and people.  saying that doesent make me an 'islamiphobe' and maybe the term isnt directed at people like me (though some would like to call me that)

western countries have their priorities mixed up when they put someones freedom to move here (being muslims) way above our own freedoms and security as a whole and a nation.

I am scared of suicide bombings, which is a new and growing problem and i know this problem is getting worse worldwide as a direct result of immigration.

to put it really bluntly id rather be safe and free than multicultural, not for racist reasons but because at the present time its not really a good idea to mix 2 kinds of people just for the sake of saying we are diverse and all that stuff.

well theres my say on the matter, didnt mean to go on there.

I know large majourity of muslims hate suicide bombings and love western freedoms and all that.
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Datruth

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2006, 04:18:32 pm »
See, i don't like the words that intermix Islam with extremists or terrorists.

Why is religeon mentioned, i mean we've went through the KKK, crusades, and hitler, without a word on christianity.

The case is the same here, religeon should not be mentioned, let's call terrorists, terrorists, and leave it at that.

We don't use the term christans and fascism or extremist or killers, but we do it for islam, and i really don't know why, it makes everyone in the media look awefull, especially when that's all they report.

I mean just look at these chrstians and tell me why no one was in an uproar when these comments were made:

Quote
Pat Buchanan:
Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free.
Speech to the Christian Coalition, September 1993

Quote
David Chilton:
The god of Judaism is the devil. The Jew will not be recognized by God as one of His chosen people until he abandons his demonic religion and returns to the faith of his fathers - the faith which embraces Jesus Christ and His Gospel.
The Days of Vengeance: An Exposition of the Book of Revelation (1984)
Quote
Ann Coulter:
We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war.
Newspaper Column, September 2001.

Quote
Tom DeLay:
Ladies and gentlemen, Christianity offers the only viable, reasonable, definitive answer to the questions of 'Where did I come from?' 'Why am I here?' 'Where am I going?' 'Does life have any meaningful purpose?' Only Christianity offers a way to understand that physical and moral border. Only Christianity offers a comprehensive worldview that covers all areas of life and thought, every aspect of creation. Only Christianity offers a way to live in response to the realities that we find in this world -- only Christianity.
House Majority Whip Tom DeLay (R-Tex.) at the First Baptist Church of Pearland, Texas, on April 12, 2002

Quote
Hitler:
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter."
Speech in 1922

Quote
Jerry Falwell:
I do not believe the homosexual community deserves minority status. One's misbehavior does not qualify him or her for minority status. Blacks, Hispanics, women, etc. are God-ordained minorities who do indeed deserve minority status.
USA Today. Quoted from: The Religious Freedom Coalition.

Quote
Jeff Fugate:
If you don't want a Christian nation, then go to one of the many nations that are heathen already, rather than perverting ours.
You're welcome to come, but leave your religions, your bibles, all your other things back where you came from.
Islam and America are opposites. They hate us. They want to kill us.  I'm not anti-Jewish or anti-Catholic. I'm anti-Islam because that religion right there is anti-American.
Jeff Fugate, pastor of Clays Mill Road Baptist Church, Lexington, KY, July 3, 2002.

Quote
D. James Kennedy:
This is our land. This is our world. This is our heritage, and with God's help, we shall reclaim this nation for Jesus Christ. And no power on earth can stop us.
Character & Destiny: A Nation in Search of Its Soul (1994)

Quote
Francis J. Lally:
The Church has through the centuries, understood that ideas are really more dangerous than other weapons. Their use should be restricted.
Francis J. Lally, American Roman Catholic Monsignor. Interview with Mike Wallace, 1958.

Quote
Joseph Morecraft:
Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody's pseudo-right to worship an idol.
Rev. Joseph Morecraft, Chalcedon Presbyterian Church, "Biblical Role of Civil Government" speech delivered on August 21, 1993 at the Biblical Worldview and Christian Education Conference.
Quote
Gary North:
So let us be blunt about it: We must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will be get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God.
"The Intellectual Schizophrenia of the New Christian Right" in Christianity and Civilization: The Failure of the American Baptist Culture, No. 1 (Spring, 1982), p. 25.

Quote
Randall Terry:
I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism.
The News Sentinel, (Fort Wayne, Indiana), August 16, 1993

Quote
James Watt:
We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand.
James Watt, Secretary of the Interior under Rondald Reagan. Washington Post, May 24, 1981.

Quote
CNN article about Pope Benedict XVI:
During his address at the University of Regensburg on Tuesday, Benedict quoted 14th-century Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus.
"The emperor certainly knew that Sura 2, 256, reads: 'No force in matters of faith'. It is one of the early suras, from a time -- as experts say -- in which Mohammed himself was still powerless and threatened.
"However, the emperor of course also knew the requirements about the holy war that were later formulated in the Quran. Without going into details like the handling of the owners of the scriptures, or non-believers, he (the emperor) turned to his interlocutors -- in a surprisingly brusque way -- with the central question after the relationship between religion and violence.
"He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'"
The Organization of the Islamic Conference, in a statement released Thursday, said it "regrets the quotations cited by the pope on the Life of the Honorable Prophet Mohammed, and what he referred to as 'spreading' Islam 'by the sword.'"
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/15/pope.islam/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

You would think we would have used the term Christian Extremists long before islamic extremists, being that we have seen so much of their work for so long.
Yet you can hardly find an article about it past 1990.
It's hardly mentioned, and only when islam is mentioned do people use the term extremists.

My point: We all have extremists, but using the term exclusively for one religeon is wrong.

~~Datruth
Truth To Disbelief

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LARAGORN

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2006, 04:45:28 pm »
Very good points Datruth.

however some of those quotes are completly out of context.
I do agree there have been many sickening things done in the name of Christianity.


Edit: It seems strange that on at least 4 other forums I use, Religion is a very hot topic right now  ???
« Last Edit: September 21, 2006, 04:47:53 pm by LARAGORN »

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zanzibar

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2006, 04:56:08 pm »
I'm pretty sure Vengeance just called someone a racist.  I'm not sure who though.



I think Datruth said it pretty well.
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davo

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2006, 05:16:31 pm »
lol i knew someone would do that.

hitler this hitler that white man this.

ignoring the matter at hand.

if you believe in world atrocoties why let them happen again, via immigration.

dont justify suicide bombings and such with hitler.

just a query though, why dont people stick up for their own kind and nation for once, and stop making it 'justifiable' in a way and sticking up for terrorists.

see world war 2 was in the past and cannot be changed immigration is a thing of today WE CAN PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING THIS TIME :P

understand what im trying to say guys
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davo

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2006, 05:32:20 pm »
nah i read the article but my posts are mostly off track from the article and more onto what other people where saying.

calling terrorists terrorist is stupid, ALOT of terrorists are islamic.  home grown terrorists like timothy mcveigh are harder to prevent and carnt really be avoided easily, but closing the floodgates on islamic immigration id say would help alot on future attacks.
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zanzibar

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2006, 05:39:33 pm »
nah i read the article but my posts are mostly off track from the article and more onto what other people where saying.

That's not true at all... no one here is defending terrorists.  Your post is pretty much dedicated to attacking people who are defending terrorists.  So... no.  Your post isn't a response to what other people were actually saying.


calling terrorists terrorist is stupid, ALOT of terrorists are islamic.  home grown terrorists like timothy mcveigh are harder to prevent and carnt really be avoided easily, but closing the floodgates on islamic immigration id say would help alot on future attacks.

What floodgates? ???
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Datruth

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2006, 06:17:41 pm »
calling terrorists terrorist is stupid, ALOT of terrorists are islamic.  home grown terrorists like timothy mcveigh are harder to prevent and carnt really be avoided easily, but closing the floodgates on islamic immigration id say would help alot on future attacks.

Ya, good option.....Sarcasm*

1 in 4 people on this earth is a member of the religeon of Islam.

Do you seriously want to ban that many people from getting into America?

Are you serious or was that a joke?

I mean you would have a public uproar, do you really, truly, understand what you are saying?


And the point about, "alot of terrorists are islamic", i'd like to see your proof on that.

You made a statement and i disagree with it.

If you look at the extremists versus the number of Muslims in the world, you get something like a VERY small percentage.
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zanzibar

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2006, 06:21:39 pm »
Not only that, but the American government is guilty of quite a bit of terrorism itself.

http://www.doublestandards.org/enemies.htm
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Datruth

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2006, 06:27:39 pm »
Not only that, but the American government is guilty of quite a bit of terrorism itself.

http://www.doublestandards.org/enemies.htm

Great point zanzibar.

But i have to say, central and south america has been hit the Hardest by the U.S.

The Roosevelt cooralary, hope i spelled that right, Was basically the establishment of a Police force of the Americas, by the U.S.

I blame the deaths of the poor Central and south Americans on their Currupt Governments and the Rise of such by intervention through the U.S.

Oh, and did anyone notice we own the Panama Canal again? What a coincidence. :woot:
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zanzibar

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2006, 06:37:16 pm »
People like Bin Laden don't actually see US citizens as innocent.  They view Americans as wilfully ignorant and as actively supporting an evil government.

If you want to go into more detail, here's an interview with Bin Laden from 1998.  http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/interview.html

He's insane and evil, but also usually mischaracterized by the mainstream media.



@Datruth:  Activities in Central America are largely a money making scheme involving the World Bank.  Support local militias, have them fall into great financial debt, then have their nation pay interest to you for eternity.  The fact that these militias overturned democratically elected, progressive, populist, socialist, anti-globalizationalist goverments is just icing on the cake.  We destroyed their social programs and then we sent in international corporations to fill the void.

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eldoth_terevan

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2006, 06:43:45 pm »
Religions are NOT peaceful things. Christianity or Islam, both are tools for political control. You cannot separate states and religions no matter what the laws say. Priests and politicians are different sides to the same coin. Both the Bible and the Koran and have passages devoted to peace and to war, to tolerance and to intolerance. No matter what is written in the books, the social processes that uphold these institutions are dedicated to controlling people and the way they think by whatever means necessary. Usually through fear and intimidation, either regarding physical needs, or based on threats (and lies) about some fable of a life beyond death. So that you will be rewarded if you are "good" and punished if you are "bad". Islam is as guilty of this as any of them and they are all ultimately useless to us. Yes, I said USELESS. As in pointless, without purpose, gratuitous, et cetera. So I am not going to defend Islam OR Christianity. They get what they deserve for huckstering people for centuries to fill their coffers with blood money and ill-gotten gains.

BTW: One does not call Judaism "Jewism" and the Roosevelt corrollary is referred to as the "Monroe Doctrine". :)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2006, 06:45:23 pm by eldoth_terevan »

ThomPhoenix

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Re: An article on Western Islamophobia
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2006, 06:53:45 pm »
[Sorry for the wrong spelling of Judaism, I was too lazy to look up how it's called in English]
Well, I only made my point very basically. Of course Christianity wasn't completely founded by just taking Judaism culture and adding a bit. But you do prove my point that practially all religions are tightly bound together, they all connect, that's why it's nonsense to fight eachother in the name of your religion.

About atheism:
I don't need a God to make my life have purpose.
There are thousands of possible purposes in a life better than living up to what that guy up there might've said.
If your life is totally meaningless without the possible existance of a God, I pity you.

Just to throw in some quotes:

Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?
  --Epicurus

Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.
  --Isaac Asimov
« Last Edit: September 21, 2006, 06:56:48 pm by ThomPhoenix »
We're not evil. We're simply amazing.