How about just talking to their members and RPing with them? That should give you a better picture of what the guild really stands for.
I will observe what they do ingame more closely, that's for sure. I might also talk to some of them, but I will most likely not engage in (deep) RP with them unless all my doubts have been extinguished. It may sound elititst or snobby, but I simply do not want to engage in RP that might turn out as being bad (as in "outside the settings", "fleeting" etc.).
I still have the impression you are filling the gaps of information with prejudice (that is since you find the concept bad/limited/poor, whatever is missing is filled with a negative assumption on your part: PLing, little RP, mass recruiting). The way you read "training hard in the arena" is an example. Not every guild that has many members is mass recruiting (it may mean their concept is appealing and it suits many characters), just like not every character who is trained or hunting in the arena is a PLer (nor does PLing mean RP will be ignored or put on second plane).
This is true. Many guilds ahve lots of member but use a good selection process. However, they are growing rather slowly. The FF have appeared only comparatively recently, and therefore have been growing unusually fast. This isn't usually possible, because there just aren't that many good RPers joining all the time. I could be wrong in this case, but as I pointed out, there has been evidence of a noticable amount of their members being not only new players but also not well acquainted to the concept of RP. Therefore I feel my filling in the blanks isn't based on too shifty ground.
Additionally, from my past experience, there is a connection between racial segregation, fast growth, PL and lack of RP. They usually stem from a certain mindset, so almost always come in one package. Really the only exception to this that I'm aware of is the FL, which I accept (for the most part, anyway).
Now, just so I can see where you're coming from better, what would you consider a good "justification"?
A good justification IMO does not exist. At least not for an
exclusively race-based guild. Even extending the "guild" concept to packs, as the FL does, a pack can be expected to, even if only on rare occasion, allow members of a different race to join. This is mostly due to marriage, but can also happen in response to some deep debt or some very special deed and excessively high respect to that person, but it can happen. IRL, tribes do also occasionally accept such members in.
The entire concept of race-basedness is questioned further by the fact that the settings quotes that over 50% ot the population is married to another race. Thus, even the packs in Ojaveda can be expected to have some non-Enki members, especially since Ojaveda is not some remote backwards village, but a, no
the major trading hub of Yliakum, and therefore will see lots and lots of non-locals all the time, therefore almost enforcing mixing. The presence of Trasok and Brintec proves this.
Therefore, only the distinctly different society in Ojaveda may make it less likely for someone to marry into a pack there, but that'll apply to Enkidukai from elsewhere as well (who are not used to that sort of thing).
Anyway, if you want to justify racial segregation, the options I see are
- a very, very, very traditional pack, which is not likely to exist, and also exclusive to Enkidukai
- an environmental necessity, like ability to breath underwater, or to fit into small tunnels, or to exist under hostile conditions, or the need for exceptional mental capabilities. However, there are always options for members of other, not so well adapted races to join, given they manage to make up for the lack of natural suitability in a way that enables them to function just as well (commonly magic or high intellect).
IOW, it is perfectly fine to have a reasoning that will
end up leaving mostly one race, if this reasoning is sound (i.e., justified within the settings, both in terms of actual need for the organisation as well as existance of the place in question). I think, however, that one should not
strive to make things so that only one race can join. I may be stupid, but I really don't see why someone would,
in character, actually think of this. This concept is much more prominent IRL than it can be in Yliakum (mixing, etc.).
Just to want to segregate based on race IRL, for whatever reasons, doesn't suffice to do it IC-ly ingame. It is an easy concept to think up, but it's hard to transpose it to Yliakum in a manner that makes it undeniably IC. That is more or less my complaint about all race-based guilds in PS.
Taking Dwarvensbane, for example. Their leader claims that their family was oppressed and exploited by a settlement of dwarves. This is highly unlikely to begin with, as all settlements are still governed by the same government. It is also unlikely that it would be possible for dwarves to manage such a thing, or to even attempt it in the first place, as their mentality is really quite different.
Even if we were to accept this as what happened, it takes a great deal of good will to accept that a character might be unable to see that this was a sort of fanatic dwarven cult and quite not the general dwarf. At least within some time in less extreme environment, the initial hate would subside to something like a distrust and the inability to form friendships with that race. Even if not, this would make one single character with a mental problem, not an entire guild. Additionally, it would also be a stretch to form such a guild in this case. Realistically, that character would end up picking fights in taverns, or, if born with much potential for violence, a murderer. Organising a guild, and doing so sufficiently believable (against all obvious proof) is something that's not likely to happen, realistically.
And this was the best / most probable explanation I've heard yet. Then there is the usual "My parents were killed by <insert race>". Now, given that it is highly improbable that that char would not have had contact and likely also friends of <race>, only a severe mental defect can lead them to think that an entire race consists of only murderers. In fact, this is more like thinking that everyone with black hair and glasses is a murderer IRL, if a band of black haired glasses-wearers killed your parents, because different races are as common in Yliakum as different hair colours IRL, judging by the setting.
Thus, I think that most of these guilds, if not all, would never have happened, or never gained any significant amount of members, if the players would play 100% realistic, i.e., fully IC.
As I said before, race based guilds resemble RL immigrant communities in which members help each other find their place in the country they're in. They share the same language and roots and this makes it more efficient for them to share information, explain social rules that might be new to them and make the adaptation process easier for those newly arrived.
Yes, this is true IRL. However, in PS, there have been no immigrants whatsoever for almost a millenium. Also, there is a common language, spoken by all inhabitants. Likewise, even given architectural differences and different ways families work (a "pack" essentially is a family in this sense), there is a common culture, even a common government, which also have been in place for at least half of the millenium FAICT.
True, little work may be put into this and RP might have little or nothing to do with their activities but it does not have to be this way nor is this a problem limited to this kind of guild.
Absolutely not, yes. This problem can appear in any other guild as well. However, these other guilds do have the option to do this work later on, while if you start out with an impossible concept no amount of work can make it fit in smoothly.
@ Idoru: I don't think evolution of language works that easily. Especially not in such extreme cases. Words take decades to slowly emerge or die out. Even worse if things become "personal" in such a way. Imagine someone IRL starting to call female humans "humfs". You wouldn't take them seriously in the first place, much less consider using that word anywhere. Noone would understand you, and you'd end up explaining a lot over and over, unlikely to find someone agreeing.
What is much more likely is that the race plays much less prominent role, therefore removing need to mention it at all in all but rare cases, so the overhead is tolerable. Even if not, it usually suffices to mention the race once, and afterwards you can refer to that person as "man" or "woman". In fact, I think people would usually use "man" and "woman" unless race actually matters. Enkidukai from Ojaveda might use "males" and "females" for all races, given their pack tradition.
If talking in person, then the need to mentione one's race is removed completely, so saying "Hi, I'm a fenki and my name is <name>" is stating the obvious and likely to get you some frowns. You don't usually IRL walk up to people saying "Hello, I'm a female caucasian and my name is <name>".
In fact, I rarely mention somene's race ingame at all. Usually it only happens when I'm describing someone to someone else, and in that case the use of the race and gender combo isn't much overhead. In fact, the way you present it, as well as the words you choose, can add to your RP.
