Author Topic: Path of the Roleplayer.  (Read 7636 times)

Under the moon

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2006, 01:07:01 am »
Miss Karyuu responded to my ‘wish’ and posed a question to me. I do not think I was clear in my answer. First, her question does not have one clear answer. The fact is, both someone who 'works' at a character through leveling, and one who custom builds one in CC can find equal satisfaction, depending on on their personality. Let me equate this to something Karyuu knows well. Art. The following is addressed to her.

We take you, Karyuu, lovely person that you are, as the first example. You love starting with a blank canvas and watching your art bloom from nothing as you work. In the end, you have something you are proud of, and enjoyed doing. You can hold it up and say "This is what I did."

Now, take someone that hates drawing, painting, or arting in any other way (not me). Does that mean this person does not like art? No. many of these people love art, and have it hanging in their house for all to see. They are proud and enjoy that they have something so beautiful to share with others. Do they feel bad that they did not create it themselves? Do they feel any less because it was made for them, just as they wanted? No. Do others shame them for not making the art themselves? No. I give for you the example of the picture Moogie made for me. I love it, and am very proud of it. I did not touch one pixel in it, but it was made to my exact specifications. I did not 'level' or take any steps to make the actual picture. Though Moogie made it, it is mine. It is mine by the fact that there is a 60,000+ words set of stories behind it that I -did- work on.

Now, think of the game as Moogie, and the characters as art -as I do-. I tell the game what I want, and it creates the character, my art, to my exact specifications. It is mine by how I play it. The work I put into make him/her real to others make it mine. Do I feel bad that I did not level it, which is something I absolutely hate doing? No. Quite the opposite. I feel good because I can spend more time doing what I love. That is weaving my character's lives into the lives of others.

Some would feel robbed if they did it that way, thinking they missed out on all the 'training' related gameplay. Are they right? Yes. For them, they would be missing out. Just as if you could no longer make art, but had to get it from someone else.

But on the other hand, think of the people that do not have the time, skill, or desire to make that art themselves. Should they have no art hanging in their house because they could not, or did not want to make it themselves? Think of the people that find leveling their characters detestable, and feel that it ruins the feel and mood of them. Should they be cut out of the game? Should I be cut out of the game?

Both ways are right. Please understand what I am saying. I love this game, this world, and the people. But... -to go back to the art example- there are many, many blank spaces on my walls for the simple fact that I can not paint the pictures myself.

And many people are telling me that you can just roleplay the way you want to. Ignore game stats and mechanics and create my own ‘stats’. Yes... and I could also draw doodles on a paper towel and pretend it is Whisper's Mother. Other people might also pretend along with me....but we all know what we really see. Doodles on a paper towel. That is all some people will ever see.

This is in no way elitist, as the ever kind and objective Zanzi stated. It is simply a wish to be included. Once the game starts relying more on game mechanics and stats to do most things, as it should, I am going to feel very left out. As will the other players like me.

As to the further profoundly objective statement about this wish “giving nothing to the general community”, ask anyone who has met my ‘unleveled’ characters about them. Ask them why they cheer whenever Hyuken rolls out from under the bar, or Aeshion glides silently into a room. Ask them why they looked forward to Krook glaring at any enki in his path, and spitting at anyone who gets too close, may he now rest in peace. You can even ask about my less known characters that simple try to fill an empty place in the world. Then ask yourself one question. What did your hours and hours of leveling bring to the general community?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2006, 01:08:55 am by Under the moon »

zanzibar

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2006, 01:35:50 am »
I don't like stats either.  That's why I'll take FUDGE over AD&D anytime.  But since stats are in the game and its settings, they're important.



There's process and there's product.  Like with art, I'm here for the joy of playing the game, not for the legacy I create for myself.
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Under the moon

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2006, 02:14:33 am »
I am afraid you misunderstand me. I have nothing against stats. They are supposed to be who we are in the game. What I am against is being forced to level up those stats to become the character I want to play. Some like taking the ladder path, some do not. But it is a choice I would like to have. I do play by my stats. The problem with that is I can only play characters that are at the lowest level. I could perhaps play a young person that wants to make his way up in the world through training... but I do not wish to. To me, that is not fun. If it is not fun, then why play? It becomes a job then, only without pay.

The choice I want is this: Choose your own stats, based on the character you want. No leveling, no training. The trade off is you don't get to level up like the other paths. Your character is basically set in stone, with just a little shifting room. This is not for everyone, but then neither is the ladder path. I wish for both. 'Leveler' type players are needed just as much as pure roleplay types. Otherwise, the world would be rather empty. The two side draw inspiration from each other. And somewhere in the middle, there is a merge, and wonderful things can happen. But for that merge to take place, there has to be the choice.

Suno_Regin

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2006, 02:30:06 am »
You can post here all you want, but the Devs never even read this forum. The wish list is simply that - a wish, and wishes never actually come true.

zorbels

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2006, 02:36:42 am »
Oh boy, suno is bringing the drama! *rolls eye's*

 :thumbup: Nice post moon. You put alot of thought and came across really clear. I understand what you are wishing for and I in part agree with you. Stat's or no stat's I love this game for the roleplay, but if your idea makes this a better place then I am all for it. 
   I've been outside, it's overrated and the graphics suck!

Karyuu

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2006, 02:44:42 am »
Suno, if you're depressed or bored or angry, there is no need to try to step on us volunteers who are doing you all a favor by working on this hobby in the first place. I am absolutely tired of this poor attitude you seem to be having lately and directing at our team. Unless I am somehow no longer a developer in your eyes, I am proof that the wishlist is not ignored.
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

neko kyouran

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2006, 03:46:26 am »
A side note, but I think it is still valid to this thread.

UTM's ideas aren't that far fetched.  A new commercial online rpg game, currently still in beta I believe, was going to introduce a system, where the player could at any time, copy thier character as a new character on thier account.  All stats and skills and whatnot would be the same as the original character, a clone of that character so to say.  Consider it like a save game point like on any other game out their.  The player could then continue to advance thier first character down one path, while taking a completely different path with the clone, all the while not having to go through the "pain" of releveling the clone from beginner stats.  The name of the game escapes me at the moment, but if I remember it, I'll be sure to post it.

The whole reasoning behind something like this is to make the game enjoyable.  Some people don't have the time to level each char up just to play a different role.   So inventive ways are thought up and produced to make it as fun as possible for all types of players.  UTM's ideas, and the character clone idea I gave as example above, are just trying to accomplish this.

Suno_Regin

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2006, 03:51:13 am »
Suno, if you're depressed or bored or angry, there is no need to try to step on us volunteers who are doing you all a favor by working on this hobby in the first place. I am absolutely tired of this poor attitude you seem to be having lately and directing at our team. Unless I am somehow no longer a developer in your eyes, I am proof that the wishlist is not ignored.

I didn't know you were a developer, and I haven't seen any suggestions posted in this forum yet that actually have been used. Maybe some will be in the future, but right now I fail to see anything.

I'm having a few problems in real life, I admit, but I didn't think I was bringing any of them here.

zanzibar

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2006, 03:51:43 am »
So you don't hate stats, but you do hate levelling?
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Suno_Regin

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2006, 03:53:59 am »
A side note, but I think it is still valid to this thread.

UTM's ideas aren't that far fetched.  A new commercial online rpg game, currently still in beta I believe, was going to introduce a system, where the player could at any time, copy thier character as a new character on thier account.  All stats and skills and whatnot would be the same as the original character, a clone of that character so to say.  Consider it like a save game point like on any other game out their.  The player could then continue to advance thier first character down one path, while taking a completely different path with the clone, all the while not having to go through the "pain" of releveling the clone from beginner stats.  The name of the game escapes me at the moment, but if I remember it, I'll be sure to post it.

The whole reasoning behind something like this is to make the game enjoyable.  Some people don't have the time to level each char up just to play a different role.   So inventive ways are thought up and produced to make it as fun as possible for all types of players.  UTM's ideas, and the character clone idea I gave as example above, are just trying to accomplish this.

I like that idea, actually. I wanted to bring all of Mitaki's stats, skills, and progression points to a new character, and abandon him, but it wasn't allowed.

zanzibar

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2006, 04:01:58 am »
I like that idea, actually. I wanted to bring all of Mitaki's stats, skills, and progression points to a new character, and abandon him, but it wasn't allowed.



For good reason.  Stats are not something you obtain.  Stats are reflective of the activities of your character.  New character?  Fresh stats.
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Suno_Regin

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2006, 04:04:05 am »
Yes, but that character has to have a history. Say he trained every day of his childhood. Why does he only have 73 strength?

Nurahk

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2006, 04:10:25 am »
Stats: Logic....
Planeshift is a roleplaying game
In Planeshift there are stats
Therefore, stats have something to do with roleplaying. (terribly flawed logic, but you get the gist of it)

Even in hard core roleplaying stats will play a part.  It's the only real way to counter god RP (besides the ban-stick...which I want).

--------------------------------

The game is still in alpha, which, in every sense of the term means that not all the features are present.

The one feature that is most lacking in this case is to advance as a smart character, which is, to my knowledge, lacking in almost every MMORPG out there.  Because of this limitation it is hard to Roleplay.  Sure, there are those scholars who had to start off life as a miner to get tria, makes sense, but not every scholar had to do that.  Some of you may point out magic, but, even while you do that, you know you are being ridiculous.

Moons idea will not work.  I wish it could but, moon assumes one fataly incorrect point.  And that is that Powerlevelers have the ability to think.  If they see that you get more CP as a "Roleplaying Character" they'll take that path.  Added to which, many of the powerlevelers I know like the challenge of leveling, and so, making it harder and skipping the low level nonsense everybody hates...yeah, they are going to love it.

It's a tough grind right now.  I understand Moon's dilema, considering I am much the same when it comes to Planeshift.  Nurahk is a softer character if you will, he won't fight(fairly) and he would never do anything as menial as mining unless he loved it.  The man behind the character has different reason, but the same end result.

What has to be added is a fun way to level those not exaclty hands on kind of people, I don't exactly know how they would do that.  Perhaps alchemy, perhaps literature.  I don't exactly know, but it's just another feature that we don't have yet and so we need to be patient just a little bit longer.


A few notes: "little bit long" is used in an amazingly relative way...to say...the ... the age of the universe.
I may have missed a couple posts on my skimming of the thread.  I account that mainly to your long windedness and am sorry for any re-saying (new term) I did.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2006, 05:35:45 am by Nurahk »

zanzibar

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2006, 04:20:28 am »
Zanzi, you are a great man but
Quote
It really seems to me like UTM just want another way to feel elite over others
That's 1) useless 2) unwarranted 3) false and you know it 4) funny



You think I'm a great man?  *sniff* *sniff*
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neko kyouran

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Re: Path of the Roleplayer.
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2006, 05:02:52 am »
Moons idea will not work.  I wish it could but, moon assumes one fataly incorrect point.  And that is that Powerlevelers have the ability to think.  If they see that you get more CP as a "Roleplaying Character" they'll take that path.  Added to which, many of the powerlevelers I know like the challenge of leveling, and so, making it harder and skipping the low level nonsense everybody hates...yeah, they are going to love it.

The way I understood Moony's post was that after initial char creation, they wouldn't be able to level, or maybe just a few points here and there.  Plus, given the right balances, they won't start out all powerful, so to the player that enjoys leveling, they will not choose this path as it wouldn't have what they want to do, which is level thier char to max.