Auto-attack. Why?

[Easton]

Hello all.

I was recently speaking with a guildmate of mine. He was frustrated because when he would go to talk to people in the sewers, he would realize that a large amount of people were afk, but sitting there and gaining PP. They would place themselves in a spot so the creature would constantly return to them and then when they were attacked, the auto-attack feature would kick in and they would kill the creature. All they while they could be completely away from the computer.

To me, this is extremely OOC. I doubt many will disagree with me. But the real issue that pops into my mind is: Why is there the auto-attack feature? I personally wouldn't mind the feature being removed. To me, it seems to serve to real purpose.

Let me know what you think..

Easton

[Kymizer]

Yes, this is a problem, and i've seen it happen myself.

Its a bad feature in my opinion, but you know, how much pp are they really going to get, not to mention they are killing their graphics card while leaving it up that amount of time.

[Under the moon]

The feature is there for client disconnects.

Truthfully, I sympathize with some of the players that do this. The entire training process may be ooc for them, but required to achieve the character they wish to play.

On the other hand, I do not like the ones that are doing it with no cause other than getting leet new skilz, which is 90% of the cases, I would guess.

The solution would be to limit auto attack to perhaps five times at the most with no input. Will this be botted? Likely, but in the end, does it matter to you? These types of players often level to the max, get bored, then leave. Let them have their fun.

*edit* the graphics card is not affected with the client minimized. If I wished, I could gain PP on several clients at once, while using minimal resources. That would be if I ever leveled any of my characters. The combat/training system is detestable to me.

[eldoth_terevan]

Agreed, UtM. The combat is designed to continue after a client disconnect and a result of aggressive MOBs. It is a very, very boring thing to do but technically the character is doing what the character should be doing when someone does this. (we really need someone to prove "bots" before making allegations about them or scripting against players, it seems to come up as a knee-jerk response a lot lately). Leveling is the system and the devs have asked that the system be tested, so there you go. Maybe this could be limited to the MOBs in the arena, but MOBs that do not attack are boring boring. And, as UtM said, the players who are doing this to go uber leet get bored and leave... leave them alone, say I.

[Ralas]

Sounds like cheating to me, and therefore intolerable.

As I understand it, auto-attack does serve a realistic purpose.  If you are wa lking down a street and a giant rat suddenly starts gnawing at your foot, chances are you will instictively start kicking at it.  IMO, auto-attack is equivalent to this instinctive kicking.  Mabe the solution is to have it go into full defensive rather than normal mode?

[eldoth_terevan]

Correct me if I am wrong someone, but they are not actually exploiting any bugs and it is being done with game mechanics as they are ... so calling this cheating is a bit incendary at this point. What we have here is the endless Role Play vs. Game Mechanics argument. Attempting to correct this means you penalize players for actually playing the game, since that is what they are doing. Things will be different after the wipe I think, but if the game is not being tested at higher skill levels, then the game is not being tested.

Interesting point with the auto full defensive idea... but it would probably involve a counting system of some kind for each different player and MOB?

[LigH]

The game once was set up to use "full defensive" stance as auto-defense.

It had to be changed for a good reason.

And there are ways to report auto-defensive players as it is meant - in game: GMs have the right to ban players who don't respond for a longer time as "suspected bots"...



And then enter the IRC channel #planeshift-gmtalk and get a GM in game... 

[Croconil]

Well, in my opinion, it shouldn't matter. If they want to do this let them. Its not cheating, and its not bug exploitation as its not a bug. Basically the lazy man's training.

As the others have said, leave them be. They will soon be gone after they have leveled a bit.

[Nikodemus]

The game once was set up to use "full defensive" stance as auto-defense.

It had to be changed for a good reason.

What is the mysterious good reason? ;P
I'm not sure why autodefence was so flawed.

The reporting part is interesting
As i understand, the auto attack is for players who crashed, but their chars are still in game for a longer while. Long enough that auto defence wont do the job, as even in full defence the HP will drop too fast and it is better to kill attacked before it kill the character of crashed player. Althhough i think the server should realize fast enough so that auto defence would be just fine. More, the auto defence should be only for max 30sec, to avoid cheating in training LA for example.
To the point. If you are seeing someone who is fighting, but not responding to your calls, there are 3 options:
1) he is in guild tab and is annoyed by the damn flashing tabs, in bad mood and even if he would care, he is temporary sick of people opening their mouth in his vicinity
2) he crashed! yay! Good that even if this feature is helpfull in the 1%~9% of meant way, we are thankful the we aren't doomed for DR.
3) he is cheating! Oh no! how can we know that? what if he is 1) or 2) and we are wrong? We are gonna report him and GM start with ban warnings (which appear in the center of the screen and cant be missed) just when the guy will be afk for 2min doing a tea? The rats will be coming from all directions and the character will kill them all automaticaly for the cursed 2 minutes when he didn't even want to kill a thing, but make a tea! Additionally, when he came back with tea, he got even more annoyed seing that PS crashed again! "Enough, maybe i play tommorow" But tommorow he can't join, coz he is banned.
Who knows, maybe this quest for ban cure will be actually more interesting than rat killing, but i'm not sure if I would enjoy it.

And remember, always look on the bright side of death.... erm, i meant life, which means to not get unnecessary irritated after reading this post ;P

EDIT Craconil, when you are cheating laying poker, are you cheating, or are you not? You are allowed by the physics mehanics and everything what this  world allow you to do, so is it a proof that it is not cheating? Like you didn't gave any proof or "why" in your post.

[Croconil]

I was only expressing my opinion, Hence the...

Well, in my opinion,

part 

[Nikodemus]

I was only expressing my opinion, Hence the...

Well, in my opinion,

part 

And so i proven you wrong while not in the mood to put in soft words ;P did it that way probably also because of someone else in this thread and some common thought of people who often want to cheat without being cheaters, heh. 

[Croconil]

Definition of cheats.

Special codes that allow you bypass the normal limitations of a game. Typical cheats allow you to gain extra lives, become invincible, access different stages, give players big heads, etc. Some cheats are built into games, while others can only be accessed using devices like the Game Shark. Cheats can also be used for testing purposes

so yeah, its not really a cheat, more of a smart way of training.

But yeah. Too tired to argue

[bilbous]

I do this from time to time, not leaving the computer but /telling people. One place I like to do it is on the bluffs overlooking Oja. Of course I like to loot whatever I kill if they are lootable. It saves me trouble when my brain is shutting down because I should have gone to bed hours ago. Also with the moving attack bug it is safer to stand in one place. Has that been fixed yet? I guess not. No matter.

[LigH]

What is the mysterious good reason? ;P
I'm not sure why autodefence was so flawed.

If I remember right, it happened during another mis-tweak, which made the auto-defense constantly kick in when attacking a monster, making you always switch to full defense when being hurt first, e.g. after launching a distant attack, and the monster moving to you to attack back. And because the stance changing didn't work, you had to stop your attack and start another, to be able to hit.

[Wired_Crawler]

And because the stance changing didn't work, you had to stop your attack and start another, to be able to hit.

It is still happening, I have never noticed any improvement.