Author Topic: oral items  (Read 7995 times)

Polar

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Re: oral items
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2006, 06:16:35 pm »
(This here's a quote.) A little clue might have been nice, not everything outrageous is meant to be a joke. (That just now, that there was a quote.)

This is sad, but it's true. I've heard people say things like, "The gay communists have infiltrated our preschools and are planting intergalactic transmitters in the left ears of our children (specifically the left ear, remember that, it might be useful some time) so that they can send and recieve messages from Klaigon VIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII." You might think, "Lol," but they actually believe these things. Anyway, enough about people who are bugnuts, on to the topic at hand.

The antismoking sentiment vs. realism: I'm completely against leaving things out of games just because one idiot might go ahead, take a chainsaw, and turn his teacher into a formerly living arts 'n crafts project. This ecompasses drugs, sex, violence, anything that people (by which I mean soccer moms and Jesus Crispies) routinely get something stuck in their craw about when it appears in, god forbid, a game on the internet. If some putz sees something awful in a game, goes out and does it, and then blames the game, they're either an unfortunate mutant whom it's no use feeling sorry for because they have the intellectual capacity of a box of laundry detergent, or they're just completely full of bullhonkey and trying to weasal their way out of all responsibility by saying 'the awful, terrible, evil gaming industry made me do it'. (As a side note, I personally do not smoke, nothing, no pot, no cigarretes, crack cocaine, not a god damn thing, and, in fact, I greatly dislike people who do smoke. And yet I am here now, advocating not leaving it out of a game just because I may personally not happen to like it. I encourage you to follow this philosophy.)

(Yes, this discussion came about because someone was talking about blowing bubbles.) I see no good reason not to implement bubbles, smoke rings, or steam if you really want to go there (hey, it'd be unique!) It would be an interesting form of entertainment that would add to an overall roleplaying experience as to be had by all players of the game. And hey, if really you wanted to add something like dope, you could always take a cue from G2, after smoking the thing, the player's view of reality becomes distorted and wobbly, and he moves at 1/2 the speed of 'real time' for about five minutes. (As to simulate the effects of 'swamp weed' (the game's equivalent of marijuanna) on the system.) I thought this was a good way to handle it, personally. (By the way, G2, not an American game, go figure. I have to rely on Germany to put interesting things in their games. Excellent roleplaying game, that. You could use almost anything you picked up, you could play the lute, you could sweep a floor with a broom, you could stir a kettle with a massive stirring spoon.) In PS, this could be handled in a variety of ways. One suggestion would be to use the herbalism system to produce materials for the other players to smoke. (Or the alchemy system to create a soapy bubble solution, if you so prefer.)

My final word on the subject is a phrase borrowed from a good man, Mr George Carlin:

"Kids don't smoke because a camel in sunglasses tells them to."

--Polar

Kiraki

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Re: oral items
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2006, 09:32:26 pm »

Well, some erhm, lovely ranting there Polar  :P Have a flower  :flowers:

I do not see the problem really, there is alcohol already, is smoking such a big step from that?  ::|

Anyway!  :D

Yay! \\o// Bubbles!   O--)  I love bubbles!  I will bubbelize you all mwahahaha  :devil: 

*Runs off to find her hidden supply of bubbles*

Natrina

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Re: oral items
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2006, 11:09:42 pm »
 About the bubble-making, I have nothing against it, but not making it a skill. To make it dependent of a skill or a stat is quite okay, but a skill alone, nah, I don't think it justifies the work.

 About cigarrets, it has been spoken before, about one-two years before. The conversation didn't really lead anywhere and it ended in something like having coca-cola ingame (as a mean of ingame publicity that would earn Planeshift a good amount of money and keep it free). I don't think that, as said before, one has to worry that kids will go smoking just cause it's done ingame. I mean there's theft, death, alcoholic drinks and many much more ingame that is "wrong" as well, why discriminate only the cigarrets and the like? Drugs should be somewhat taken off as there is much controversy about that, but not regular cigarrets. This is as much as taking Peter Pan off the TV cause some kid died trying to fly, it's sad, it happens, but I think it's more the children's lack of cognition of the difference between real life and what's fantasy that makes the difference. Anyway, that's the devs' call, not us the wishlisters'.

 Hm, thinking about it, I still find it strange the bubble-making, I keep imagining a knight walking around making bubbles in a full market, hehe.

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Croconil

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Re: oral items
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2006, 12:56:02 am »
I agree Natrina.

I mean, not many people go and stab people with swords after playing PS do they?  :-\

Polar

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Re: oral items
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2006, 05:07:05 am »
Thank you Kiraki. =P That's what I do. Sort of. x.X Squee. =3 *Takes flower, nuzzles* Flower! *Herbalism increases by 1?*

In regards to Natrina's comment about the previous thread: It's odd how simple conversations can lead to completely unrelated topics, isn't it? Eg:

Some guy creates a thread about alchemists being able to synthesize nitroglycerin and make explosives. Then someone suggests, "Hey, why don't we make fireworks? Those would be pretty." Then three people agree. (I'm probably one of them.) The fourth guy, not so much, instead he suggests (going on a slippery slope) "If we can have fireworks, why can't we create primitive missiles?" Next post, "Screw primitive, we can synthesize metals, why not create nuclear missiles?" The next guy who posts makes a joke about Hiroshima (not in very good taste, but he didn't mean anything specifically by it, it's just a funny joke), and the post after that is the token Japanese guy on the forums calling them a foul racist prick. An entire discussion about racism ensues. It lasts for 15 pages (because it's a popular topic) until someone finally says, "Hey wait, wasn't this post about the alchemy skill tree?"

Ah, what tangled webs we weave.

--Polar

bilbous

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Re: oral items
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2006, 05:19:04 am »

 Hm, thinking about it, I still find it strange the bubble-making, I keep imagining a knight walking around making bubbles in a full market, hehe.

Pierce him through the lung or puncture his larynx and you'll see plenty of bubbles .... for a bit anyway.

ramlambmoo

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Re: oral items
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2006, 08:36:54 am »
Quote
I mean, not many people go and stab people with swords after playing PS do they? 

Yes but there are actual laws prohibiting the advertising of smoking.

I think it would be cool if you could smoke, but then you could become addicted to it and lose stats of some sort if you dont have any for a while (Like you lose mental stanmia if you're addicted to it).  Then you have to deal with the disadvantages for a while until you get over it.

Kalika

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Re: oral items
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2006, 08:39:17 am »
yeah but isnt that making it more complicated than it needs to be? especially for the people who deisgn it

'she lies with her arms flung out as if to embrace the whole hyancinth-scented, watermelon-colored world.'

Einnol

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Re: oral items
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2006, 05:04:32 pm »
I am not so interested in any kind of bubble blowing skill/trick or trippy effects and slowed walking speeds, but I would very much like to see pipes as an item (equipable, of course), that possibly emits a tiny little stream of smoke, no more, no less.  I don't see where it has to have any benefits or detriments myself either.  I would like to see them just as props basically.  This would be no different than the mugs that we have now really.  Just something useful for RP.

I think maybe the key thing about the in-game smoking and it's 'possible' effect on younger players is just to not 'glorify' it in any way.  Again, if it has no effect on your character and he can't blow smoke rings or magical smoke pterasaurs that fly around the tavern for a few minutes, then a pipe is only an RP prop.  Younger players and/or those not as interested in RP would get bored with a pipe and not bother with it once they found out that it does not 'do anything fun' or 'do anything for their charcter'.

@Polar:  Bluntly stated, but I agree with what you are saying.  If someone is that influenced to do something that is represented in a game, then they have a serious problem distinguishing fantasy from reality.  Oh...and George Carlin is awesome!   \\o//

Polar

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Re: oral items
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2006, 08:22:06 am »
Man. I want to see smoke pterasaurs now. =P

1. Yes, Geroge Carlin is, in fact, the man. Though the poor guy is getting pretty old at this point.
2. The plain prop idea is a good one. Don't know why someone didn't suggest it earlier. You see the character strike up a match and light it, then he holds it aloft idly in the chosen hand, taking a puff at it now and again, while it exudes a little smoke stream in the meantime, and is otherwise useless. Again, I'm not for dampening the effect for the sake of keeping the idea 'sterile' or 'safe', but from what I gather from those I am acquainted with who smoke, there really isn't much of an effect. Apparently there's no real buzz involved, either. It basically entails you getting up, sticking a tube-like object in your mouth, lighting one end of it, and sucking and blowing until it's all gone, then repeating the process, even though you don't enjoy it, want to stop doing it, and can't afford it. (Good luck following that logic. I have a divining rod, the support of twelve NASA satelites, and the world's most powerful GPS system, and I'm still having trouble locating the point.)
3. There's no logic in requiring a specific skill to smoke a pipe, or blow bubbles for that matter, whether it's got a specific use or not. Even if you would say, blow bubbles in the shape of the lady from the Mona Lisa playing pool with Sigmund Freud, at best this falls under the bard/enterainment skill that already exists (or is planned for implementation.)
4. If you had to make bubble-'art' or smoke-'art', it would be most pertinent, as I said, to make it fall under the general entertainment skill, and just run it right through the charisma stat.

But if they put pipes in, would there have to be no smoking sections in the game's bars? Just something to think about.

--Polar

Croconil

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Re: oral items
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2006, 12:56:07 am »
Yes but there are actual laws prohibiting the advertising of smoking.

I know, I didnt say there wasn't. But its not like it will be promoting it, just a small pipe that emmits smoke. I mean, Peter Jackson didnt get 'arrested' for 'promoting' smoking in the film LOTR when Gandalf was smoking, so why is this any different?

zanzibar

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Re: oral items
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2006, 04:40:16 am »
Yes but there are actual laws prohibiting the advertising of smoking.

I know, I didnt say there wasn't. But its not like it will be promoting it, just a small pipe that emmits smoke. I mean, Peter Jackson didnt get 'arrested' for 'promoting' smoking in the film LOTR when Gandalf was smoking, so why is this any different?



This is different because of who is making this game and what their values are.  The point isn't whether or not they could get away with it.
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Kalika

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Re: oral items
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2006, 08:00:13 pm »
okay the values are understandable, but then why is drinking a ok?

arent smoking and drinking two sides of the same coin?

botha re present in fantasy and medieval style games, books, movies...youre not gonna pull out a ciggarette but a pipe...it suits the setting

'she lies with her arms flung out as if to embrace the whole hyancinth-scented, watermelon-colored world.'

zanzibar

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Re: oral items
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2006, 08:31:35 pm »
The way I see it, there is such a thing as pleasurable casual drinking.  But there is no such thing as pleasurable casual smoking, unless you're talking about marijuana.  The pleasure from nicotine is dependant on the relief you get from satisfying addiction.  Said differently, people enjoy smoking cigarettes because they're addicted, not because cigarettes are inherently pleasurable.

Alcohol abuse is a horrible thing, and drunks are dangerous individuals.  Drunk driving, fights at clubs, rape, these are bad things.  However, those people seem to be the exception more than the rule.  Most people who drink will have a few drinks and that's it.  Wine is even said to have health benefits because of the antioxidants and relaxing effects.

By contrast, cigarette smoking has no health benefit, and it's ALWAYS a nuisance to the people around you.  I hate walking through a cloud of smoke because some piece of crap doesn't have the decency in him to refrain from smoking near an entrance.  99% of smokers don't seem to realize that what they're doing is obnoxious, even criminal.  Then you get the bastards who smoke around young children, even newborns - these people are scum.  It's highly addictive, even more so than heroin because of the social aspect of it.  And you have the cigarette companies who hid for 50 years the fact that smoking kills you, all the while advertising smoking to a younger and younger target audience.  These people are part of the definition of evil.



I guess you could argue that we're talking about pipe smoking, not cigarettes, but in today's culture it's hard to differentiate the two unless you're educated on it.
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Kalika

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Re: oral items
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2006, 08:39:43 pm »
not ciggarettes...yes pipe smoking...

but were not talking about a nicotine form...were talking about *at least my opinion* of stuff like in lotr, where IT IS a pleasurable activity but is not abused...i dont know what it is, maybe an herb, but it jsut something to do when youre sitting in front of the fire having a conversation with someone type of thing

not everyone likes drinking, and some might prefer to ahve the ability to smoke out of a pipe...or at least ahve the pipe as a prop...

personally i dont really care because i can use my imagination

but i do think that having pipes would be kinda cool because that way i could start doing some of *glassblowing?* and make pretty ones...
« Last Edit: October 25, 2006, 08:41:45 pm by Kalika »

'she lies with her arms flung out as if to embrace the whole hyancinth-scented, watermelon-colored world.'