Dueling Etiquette

[Roahn]

Hello all,

I am Roahn, the guy who Datruth has been whining about. I am new, as I started playing on Saturday, the day before I met Restound. He challenged me, and I accepted, though his description said he was "significantly more powerful" than me. My dagger skill is 5, and I've barely trained my armor, so I knew I stood no chance against this guy except with magic. I did try to hit him with my daggers the moment it started, but they didn't touch him. I ran back a short distance and fired a missile. He just stood there, so I did it again. And again. Then he chased me a bit, I went around a corner, and fired again. Ran, fired, ran, fired. Now Restound, let me assure you, you cannot RUN while casting, not even one step, you can only walk. Anyway, the battle took quite a while, and it took a lot of work to hit him enough to get him down to around 10% health. I was feeling pretty good... until I watched him instantly undo all the work I'd done, as his health popped back to 100%. It was at this point that I realized it was futile to fight him. I mean, I had to hit him around 10 times with my magic, which took a lot of work. The realization that he could undo 2 minutes of hard work slowly knicking him with missiles with a simple keypress was very disappointing, and something I NEVER would have expected from someone honorable. I admit it was my fault for assuming Restound would be honorable, a mistake I will never make again. At this point, I ran and ran, never trying to shoot another missile, as it was obvious it was futile. I tried to get far enough away to type "/yield" but eventually he got to me and killed me, in a single blow.

To me, Restound won the duel, and his half a duel point. Congratulations, Restound. To me, I consider it a victory over a far stronger foe. Though I lost my life in that battle, I retained my honor. Now, let's clear up some of Datruth's incorrect assumptions:

He clearly used energy arrow, and his Crystal way was max. He is what i consider a pure mage, Doens't train Weapons much but has trained his magic to the full. That means CHA, INT, Crystal way, and probably END was full.
He used only 5 arrows, at most, drahilian.

You are quite wrong, "Datruth," as that stats you guess I have are all between 45 and 65. Isn't max around 150? You think my crystal is max?! Haha! Maybe in a few months. You know how expensive it is to train crystal?! It took me all Saturday just to be able to train it once.

Magic has an inherent advantage over Melee, in all cases. Imagine a fully trained Mage, starting the duel and running away from their opponoent, they are now far away from you, you turn around and you get hit with 2 arrows, you run at them and you get hit with 2 more. You are now at 20%.

PLUS, You can cast a spell, MOVE, and then when it's about to go off stand still. So NO mages don't have to stand still the whole time. I saw him do it and i myself have done that in the past to get away from NPCs.

You imagine a "fully trained" mage. As I mentioned, I'm NEW. I worked hard to get a couple points in Crystal Way, and you consider me "fully trained?" You assume many things, Datruth, but those assumptions are not "da truth." If you'd ever used magic in PS, you would know that you cannot run while casting any spell. You must stand still, or walk slowly.

You don't know what you're talking about, you weren't there, and this was no victory by him.
He choose to get rid of all rules by using magic, without stipulating it at the beginning. Therefore i used 3 potions at the beginning to even the odds.

I consider it a victory, and will always consider it a victory. I kicked your arse, Restound. I, a "noobie" as you called me in a /tell before I put you on my Ignore list, knocked you to 10% health, until you panicked and healed back to 100%. I have no doubt you only used 3 potions. I mean, why use another, when you're already at 100%?

I can't believe you came here and posted in this forum, complaining about me using magic against you. /me shakes his head in disbelief. I am only hoping that I will find some in PS that DO have some honor.

Farewell,

~~~ Roahn the Noobie ~~~

[Gharan]

Your not new i knew who you were straight away 

[Ralleyon]

I really fail to see why all the people in here argue so hard about these things. You are forgetting a couple of details...

Yes, the game is unbalanced, you are very much correct. It will be balanced some day, somehow, but we have to remember that this game is still in its pre-alpha stages.

And you know what? I've been beaten through magic as well. And I didn't like it. Because at the time, I didn't know that it was usable in duels again, but I got over it. I came back fought again and lost. What can I say? I'm not a very good dueller, but this time, I knew his tactics and agreed to it so he won fair and square.

About that use of potions thing, I really don't feel that you are right (that vast majority who called it cheating). Is it withing the game mechanics? Yes. Do you have a max amount of potions you can hold? Yes! Is it a free for all type of duel? Then why whine? Before you ask, no, I don't use potions in duels either, because I like the fair duel way, but I don't feel that the use of potions in a free for all duel or in a duel in which it's been agreed upon beforehand is such a big deal. Also, it doesn't mean that everything is fair and right in this world, or in any other.

Still in rant mode, I would say that in terms of game mechanics there is one thing that I truly dislike. It does concern the so heated missile or energy arrow, which can be fired at ANY range, with 100% accuracy and even through walls. Now if we are to whine, then let's talk about that. It's there that I'd love to see some balancing, since /target Ralleyon and /cast energy arrow can be done from anywhere even if I am in the other side of the plaza from my opponent. Now that's what truly needs balancing.

And another matter that deserves attention is the actual topic of this thread. What Datruth is saying about a Duel Etiquette is not a bad idea at all, but one needs to RP this before hand. Provided that this happens and that there are some common duel types, yes it would be very nice to duel honourably and choose weapons, fighting style and so on. I suggest we end this petty fight, think about some Duel Etiquette and move the discussion more in that direction, I am really curious what people think about on this matter.

[Nikodemus]

I feel the approach to potions and damage to hit points may be not very good, but i know now it is in very early stage too. What it basically lacks is gradual decrease or increase. Potions aren't to heal you while battle, but rather while you have a bit more time, but it should never work instantly. A good idea, as it is good step away from the so called MMORPGS model. There are more ideas to implement about potions, to make them reasonable.

Duels. You see, you will never convince all the people to treat the duels like a real duels. Simply because you are wrong if you think PS mehanics definition of duel word is same as the duel word you know. I already told games only imitate this what you got used to in real world. And so you have an example there.
PS duels are a way to make occasions to actual PCvsPC fight with use of skills/stats - the random factor. These fights may be actual duels if both oponents are knights, or someone with some code, but you can't except it from everyone^^.

[Datruth]

I'd only wish i would have recorded the duel so there would have been no debate whatsoever.

Roahn is obviously lying, he says he's a noob just because his melee skills arn't that great. Why not take a genuine screenshot of your skills and reveal to us exactly how much CHA, INT, and crystal way you have.

And explain to me why someone would stand still for 6 *10, 6 seconds per arrow, 10 Arrows, as you claim, = 1 minute.

That's total BullS**T.

You hit me with a MAX of 5 arrows, 3 or 4 to be exact. That makes alot more sense and it establishes my claim that i did run after but you were too far to get too.

I used 3 regular Healing potions, and i was at 20% life actually, you try that on a person who has FULL end and Full STR and AGI.

It will not completely heal them, go ahead and try it.

"I kicked your arse, Restound. I, a "noobie" as you called me in a /tell before I put you on my Ignore list"

You didn't kick my arse, all you did was surprise me, run away and send 3 or 4 arrows at me, to get over the surprise i used 3 regular potions of healing.

Then i chased you down, you ran like a coward for 3 minutes strait.

He also provoked the duel in the first place, I was talking to a new member of my guild. She happened to be a fenki.

He initiated a free for all and that's what he got.
And don't buy his crying of, "bad wolf".
Let's check his stats and see how much of noob he is and let's see when his character was made as well as if he has any other characters.
A 2 day old character, like he claimed, would not have been able to get an energy glyph, train crystal way to 8, and train CHA to 110.

I currently have 8 crystal way and 110 CHA, he is significantly better than me when it comes to magic, He could not have gotten that high in 2 days, as he claimed.
Or even a week. It takes time to just get the information, make enough money, and learn all this stuff.

He is only a noob in 2 places,

1) That he doesn't understand dueling Ettiquette and falsely labels people cheaters.
2) He surprises people with magic and kills them without any actual skill.

Again, i have FULL HEALTH (fully trained it all), any average character would have been dead, even a few above average ones.
Also roahn I don't appreciate people coming on the boards and lying about an incident and on top of that labeling me a cheat.

You lost because you used magic, had you fought me sword to sword I wouldn't have used a potion.
If you want to use magic, specify it, don't prounce it on players and kill them, that requires no skill at all.
And if you don't specify it, you have a Free for all, and you have no right to complain about potions.

~~Datruth

Posting chat logs is not allowed here unless all parties agree to it. -Karyuu

[neko kyouran]

I tried to be nice. 

This argument is just that.  An argument.  Its all he say, she say.  No definative proof one way or the other.  We can go back and forth and back and forth all we want.  You say what happens, he says what happens. You post chat logs, he post chat logs.  Chat logs can be manipulated.  They mean nothing.  No one will win this argument.  I have a picture for just this type of situation.  It has a bad word in it so I always refrain from posting it.  If anyone wants to see it though, PM and I'll send you a link to it.

Again, I say. Why get so worked up over something that means absolutey nill?  It's already been established that both parties are at fault.  Why must this continue?

If you two want to continue your debate on who is right and who is wrong, please take it to PMs. 

[Datruth]

I tried to be nice. 

This argument is just that.  An argument.  Its all he say, she say.  No definative proof one way or the other.  We can go back and forth and back and forth all we want.  You say what happens, he says what happens. You post chat logs, he post chat logs.  Chat logs can be manipulated.  They mean nothing.  No one will win this argument.  I have a picture for just this type of situation.  It has a bad word in it so I always refrain from posting it.  If anyone wants to see it though, PM and I'll send you a link to it.

Again, I say. Why get so worked up over something that means absolutey nill?  It's already been established that both parties are at fault.  Why must this continue?

If you two want to continue your debate on who is right and who is wrong, please take it to PMs. 

Are you calling me a liar neko?

Those chat logs were accurate and all statements he made were proven false.

Although we might not have tangible proof we have something called logic, just look at his post, it's all B.S.

And no, i'm not equally at fault. He takes the majority of the blame, that's a fact. I'm pretty sure if you start a confrontation, lie about a confrontation, and call your opponent a cheater, and then you're proven wrong, you are at fault.

Stop trying to switch the blame, the majority of it does belong in one persons corner and that's his, end of discussion, no need to be politically correct.

~~Datruth

[Karyuu]

Why are you being so aggressive? His only problem with you was you using potions, a concern which seems to be shared by the majority here. He hasn't done anything wrong. Weren't you the one who initiated the duel anyway?

[Peacer]

come smite me :F GRAAAAAAAA

what?

((come fight me))

anyway

@datruth: Please don't go on with this, it really has no point, it's good if you stay on topic with what you think is right and wrong but don't go ranting about that duel, you killed him and he thinks he kicked your arse, end of story, no more to it. Please?
As neko said this argument is going nowhere, just say "I'm sorry i used potions" and be a nice guy, you will get an apoligy back.

@Ralleyon: still if you can, potions will still outdue it, it really takes nothing to mine for half an hour and fill up your inventory with greater healing potions and make a macro to fully heal yourself, and since we can't duel in the plaza walls get really hard to find , besides before you're down to 0 you can follow where the arrows are comming from sneak up on him and ninjae him .

[Datruth]

Why are you being so aggressive? His only problem with you was you using potions, a concern which seems to be shared by the majority here. He hasn't done anything wrong. Weren't you the one who initiated the duel anyway?

What did he do wrong, k let's go over it:

1) He was openly rude while i was talking to a guild member.

2) I ignored it and started walking away, then he calls me a coward.

3) I expect an average duel and what does he do, he runs and starts hitting me with arrows, hits me with about 3 or 4 and i'm down to 20% life. While this isn't fully wrong, it is a shady tactic used by people who don't want to fight fair.

4) He initiated a free for all, so i used 3 regular potions of healing and chased after him. AFter 3 continues minutes of running i Kill him. After this he calls me a cheat, Why? Because I canceled the damage he did and the surprise he had planned.

Basically, i ruined his strategy. Was i going to use more potions, no, my intent was to get over the surprise and fight, and i did.

5) He whines to everyone and their mother that i'm a cheater trying to taint his reputation.

6) He openly lies on the forums about the facts, twisting them as well. First he says that he used 10 Arrows and i mathematically showed that was total BullS**T.

Then he points out he's a noob, when clearly he couldn't be with the amount of damage those arrows did.

7) He lies in his statement that he is a 2 day old player and i show you conclusive evidence why he can't be.

8 ) He tries to back up his story that he is a new player by referencing to the fact that i called him a Noob but when i show the chat log it shows WITHOUT A DOUBT that I said he was a Noob because he didn't know dueling etquette and that he wasn't a noob because of power, which is obviously something he has when it comes to magic.

The LIST goes on and on.

And You karyuu, of alll people, say he hasn't done anything wrong?

YOU yourself, Ms. Karyuu said it's o.k to use potions if no rules are set and if a FREE for ALL duel is made.
So did Suno. So did alot of people here.
And the finger is still pointed at me?
Not only that but you deleted the chat logs which showed a MYRIAD of proof of his lies, deceptions, and whining.

I'm outraged and i have a right to be. My integrity is at stake and I have showed conclusively that I am at very little fault here.
Please feel free to disagree with me and show me i'm wrong, i challenge you to.

~~Datruth

[Peacer]

~~Datruth

If you're seeing this could you log on msn please

[Karyuu]

Datruth, you are being a child. You are uptight and bellicose over an insignificant event, and even after everyone in this thread has offered you a different perspective, you insist on your nonsensical combative stance. Cut it out, seriously. You are not winning any points here, nor any arguments. This rant has gone on way past its expiration date and is now testing my patience.

1) He was openly rude while i was talking to a guild member.

2) I ignored it and started walking away, then he calls me a coward.

So you challenge him with the intention of ending his life? Had I seen that in real life, I would've thought "Is that guy completely out of his mind?" Either your character is a big bully, or totally insecure. Either way you're immediately at fault for being so rash.

3) I expect an average duel and what does he do, he runs and starts hitting me with arrows, hits me with about 3 or 4 and i'm down to 20% life. While this isn't fully wrong, it is a shady tactic used by people who don't want to fight fair.

Using magic isn't a shady tactic - the next time you start saying this, I'm going to take a mallet and beat it into your head :] What is a fair fight, not using the talents you have and instead throwing daggers at your opponent, which you have never learned to handle? Where do you get this ludicrous idea that somehow your expectation of a duel is the way all duels should be, and everyone should state what they are going to use before using it? This is preposterous.

4) He initiated a free for all, so i used 3 regular potions of healing and chased after him. AFter 3 continues minutes of running i Kill him. After this he calls me a cheat, Why? Because I canceled the damage he did and the surprise he had planned.

You seem to be ignoring what everyone else here is saying about potions. I didn't understand it in the beginning, but I realize now how unfair potion use in a duel is. There's your lack of honor, not his.

5) He whines to everyone and their mother that i'm a cheater trying to taint his reputation.

And what exactly were you trying to do in this thread? Your made up "dueling etiquette" is using him as an example of some bizarre "inappropriate behavior."

YOU yourself, Ms. Karyuu said it's o.k to use potions if no rules are set and if a FREE for ALL duel is made.
So did Suno. So did alot of people here.

Show me quotes of those "a lot of people here."

Not only that but you deleted the chat logs which showed a MYRIAD of proof of his lies, deceptions, and whining.

And you broke the forum rules. You are ignoring several replies in this thread that either prove your wrong about a certain point or make corrections about some of your statements. I don't really like that.

[Roahn]

Roahn is obviously lying, he says he's a noob just because his melee skills arn't that great. Why not take a genuine screenshot of your skills and reveal to us exactly how much CHA, INT, and crystal way you have.

I created my character on Saturday Oct. 7. My stats are as I told you. Melee 0, dagger 5, LA 5 (on the day of our battle), and I've only trained Crystal a small amount. I don't expect you to believe me, since you are convinced that your blind assumptions are facts.

And explain to me why someone would stand still for 6 *10, 6 seconds per arrow, 10 Arrows, as you claim, = 1 minute.

Good question, Datruth. Why *did* you stand still and let me shoot you so many times? Lack of experience dueling maybe?

You didn't kick my arse, all you did was surprise me, run away and send 3 or 4 arrows at me, to get over the surprise i used 3 regular potions of healing.
Then i chased you down, you ran like a coward for 3 minutes strait.

So you are saying that using potions to save youself from losing to a weaker character is NOT cowardly, but running from someone far stronger who will use potions to win a duel IS cowardly? Your perception of cowardice is a bit skewed.

Let's check his stats and see how much of noob he is and let's see when his character was made as well as if he has any other characters.
A 2 day old character, like he claimed, would not have been able to get an energy glyph, train crystal way to 8, and train CHA to 110.
I currently have 8 crystal way and 110 CHA, he is significantly better than me when it comes to magic, He could not have gotten that high in 2 days, as he claimed.
Or even a week. It takes time to just get the information, make enough money, and learn all this stuff.

Datruth, your myriad of assumptions only make you look foolish. I never said I had 8 in crystal way. I never said I had an Energy glyph. All my stats are low, as I told you before. I agree with your statement of "he is significantly better than me when it comes to magic," but not because of stats or training, but simply because I know how to use it. You even think you can run while casting, which you've mentioned several times. I learned that in the first 5 minutes of using magic. I'm not bragging... I suck at dueling... you just suck more than I do. Stop making assumptions when you have no clue what you are talking about.

Also roahn I don't appreciate people coming on the boards and lying about an incident and on top of that labeling me a cheat.

I did NOT call you a cheat. Read my message again if you don't believe me. What I said was that you lack honor. Your continued ranting has only strengthened this opinion.

~~~ Roahn ~~~

[Peacer]

Let's check his stats and see how much of noob he is and let's see when his character was made as well as if he has any other characters.
A 2 day old character, like he claimed, would not have been able to get an energy glyph, train crystal way to 8, and train CHA to 110.
I currently have 8 crystal way and 110 CHA, he is significantly better than me when it comes to magic, He could not have gotten that high in 2 days, as he claimed.
Or even a week. It takes time to just get the information, make enough money, and learn all this stuff.

Datruth, your myriad of assumptions only make you look foolish. I never said I had 8 in crystal way. I never said I had an Energy glyph. All my stats are low, as I told you before. I agree with your statement of "he is significantly better than me when it comes to magic," but not because of stats or training, but simply because I know how to use it. You even think you can run while casting, which you've mentioned several times. I learned that in the first 5 minutes of using magic. I'm not bragging... I suck at dueling... you just suck more than I do. Stop making assumptions when you have no clue what you are talking about.

that evaluation in the bottm doesn't count on skills, only on stats (str, agi, end, cha, int and will)

[Datruth]

Roahn was and is the cause of all this.

I shouldn't have let his whining get the better of me. He wanted to go around Yliakum saying i was dishonorable, should have been fine by me.
But it wasn't, I had to go on the forums and i had to set the record strait.
I listed the facts and i thought i was done.

I didn't want his thread to turn into a rant and a flame thread but it's shifted that way. Fingers were pointed away from me then back again , on and on.

The constant lieing by the other party didn't help either. Even after having shown proof, no one saw it in my favor.
I think there maybe a bias agianst me but that's still a theory and i have no proof to go off of.

I know the potion thing can be debated forever, i agree unlimited potions are wrong, but again i only used 3 and only at the beginning. I'm sorry if you felt it's wrong and i know better not to even use 3 anymore. I should just get rid of them all right now to save me the trouble.

If you read the last part of my thread it outlines a good Duel etiquette, I think that should be what we should talk about.
I don't want to waste another 3 pages screaming at Roahn about his lies or at Karyuu about her bias.

You can continue talking about the real question at hand, dueling ettiquette. I will have no more part in all this screaming, someone needs to step up and say enough is enough.
We arn't learning anything anymore, just screaming at each other. The more screaming i do, the more it seems no one listens. It isn't helping anything.

So Roahn, go ahead and try and ruin my reputation in game, i tried to conteract that by making this thread.

I've been told by a trusted friend that, it would have been better to let you go around calling me dishonorable or a cheat, than me making this thread.

I disagree but i trust my friends advice. He saw all the anger this thread stirred up and he wants it to end, i agree with him.

The facts have all been laid out and you can judge for yourself who is right, just read them from page one onwards.

But now get to the pressing issue, look at my first post and see how i seperated the duels, discuss that and work for a solution to this potions problem.

No infinite potions isn't right, but what about 3 to take off the initial surprise of the magic?

I'm sorry this thread turned into a flame war and i'm sorry i didn't stipulate the terms of the duel. It became a free for all that lead to chaos.

But for everything else i leave to you to judge.

~~Datruth