Duel Points

[Peacer]

Seytra has some good points actually, but suno reign has some good ones too, although... i don't care much about them as said before... If the track of losses and wins is what he measures why not just give one duel point per win and remove one per loss?

[neko kyouran]

Sooooo, why not simply replace DP with something more meaning ful as in a Win-Loss-Draw field?  No matter if its simply one number going up or down or many, a single number doesn't represent anything along the lines of dueling experience.  I have two test characters that each have about 0 DP (one a little above, one a little below), but each of them has dueled the other at least a good 100-200 times, while I tested various game features and strategies.  I simply had them alternate which one would win each time.  A person that only has dueled a fourth of that can have a way higher number than 0, but has that person really gotten more experience in dueling in? No.  So a single number does not give any indication of dueling experience.  Only a Win-Loss-Draw area that shows wins in one column, losses in another, and draws in a third is the only meaningful way of showing Dueling Experience. 

This way is also much better for IC explanations (again, just a single number really has no IC explanation and is purely OOC) as you can say that the character has been keeping a talley of his/her duels and how many they have won/lost/drawn.

[bilbous]

but each of them has dueled the other at least a good 100-200 times, while I tested various game features and strategies.  I simply had them alternate which one would win each time.  A person that only has dueled a fourth of that can have a way higher number than 0, but has that person really gotten more experience in dueling in?

Is it really a duel if you are working both combattants and arbitrarily deciding which will win? How do you manage to work both controls at the same time? This just points out the meaninglessness of the stats.

[neko kyouran]

My point was, just becuase one person may only have very little points, while another has a few hundred, that doesn't mean that the person with a few hundred duel points actually has more dueling experience.  Even if 2 different people were controlling the two characters in my given example, my point is stil valid.

[Hadfael]

What if PlayerA has more DPs than PlayerB?
What does it prove?
Was PlayerA victorious against a few stong oponents?
Was PlayerA a n00bslayer?
Can we say that PlayerB defeated more even if he fought more successful battles?

No, it's proving nothing.
And a count of victories/loss would also be meaningless without reflecting the strength of the oponents.

DPs in general are meaningless, so better ignore them and wish they will be hidden/disabled.

Warriors can still compare their strengh in the number of Ulbers, rats, foes, they defeated. And by the fear their reputation inspires to the ones standing against them, good or bad.

[Drahlian]

Duel points are set up so that if a weaker player defeats a stronger player, then will get >1 duel point. If a stronger character defeats a weaker one, they will get <1 duel point. In my dueling experience, I've gained as many as 4 duel points by killing a far stronger opponent, and gained as little as .1 duel points for killing a far weaker player after I became strong. One time I lost 16 duel points at once, when a noobie challenged me without a word, then ran away. I accepted and went to find him, but ended up hitting Unstick, which of course also yields, losing me 16 dp (and gaining him 16, I'm sure).

I've seen some inconsistencies, though. One time I started a brand new character, and a friend did the same. Neither character had trained anything, but for some reason, I only earned about .5 dp for a win, and lost 2 dp for a loss. I suspect that dp value is based on relative training, not stats. My character must have started the game with higher skills, and his character with higher stats.

On the one hand, I think duel points are an interesting and somewhat effective measure of dueling success. However, it can easily be abused. I earned all my dp fairly, mostly by dueling hundreds of times in the DR with friends, and with all the battling in the Dwarvesbane/Dwarven Star war. However, someone could create a new, weak character, and have it kill their strong character over and over, and they'd rack up lots of DP quickly. Of course their strong character would lose DP just as fast as their weak one gained them, but my point is that they can be abuse dishonorably (just like many other aspects to PS).

-Drahlian

[lorina]

What are you going on about? >.>

Precisely about what you say:

The points are there so we can OOCly compare with eachother and see who has a better duel average. That's OOC though, O-O-C. Anyone who roleplays their wins and losses, like I do sometimes, might say in the tavern or when challenging someone "I've had 39 wins and 1 loss" or something like that. Your character keeps a personal score, while OOCly you keep a point score. Sure, the points don't do anything, but they're fun for comparing like we are in this thread.

It's OOC. Therefore, it's justification in PS is void. I was expecting tries to justify them as IC, thus I tried to preempt the possible argument about that.
The OOC-ness alone warrants removal from the game interface, and the fact that they measure how well you worked the system is exactly what I said: "lvl", and I believe that a great deal of all duelling in PS is done not for RP reasons, but to increase that "lvl". And since PS isn't supposed to be a MULARP, as is being stated repeatedly by players, GMs and devs alike, it is as opposed to PS's goal as it can be, which warrants completely extinguishing them forever. I think, in PS, one should compete by the quality of one's RP instead.

There is always someone to complain about everything why doesnt everyone one just get on with it and if you dont like whats happening dont post in the thread simple as

[Seytra]

There is always someone to complain about everything why doesnt everyone one just get on with it and if you dont like whats happening dont post in the thread simple as

That is not an option, because doing so could be seen as implicitely condoning, which is definitely not the case. AMOF, I think noone should refrain from posting when they don't agree, because this sort of behaviour frequently leads to "silent majority" problems.

[Peacer]

Duel points are set up so that if a weaker player defeats a stronger player, then will get >1 duel point. If a stronger character defeats a weaker one, they will get <1 duel point. In my dueling experience, I've gained as many as 4 duel points by killing a far stronger opponent, and gained as little as .1 duel points for killing a far weaker player after I became strong. One time I lost 16 duel points at once, when a noobie challenged me without a word, then ran away. I accepted and went to find him, but ended up hitting Unstick, which of course also yields, losing me 16 dp (and gaining him 16, I'm sure).

I've seen some inconsistencies, though. One time I started a brand new character, and a friend did the same. Neither character had trained anything, but for some reason, I only earned about .5 dp for a win, and lost 2 dp for a loss. I suspect that dp value is based on relative training, not stats. My character must have started the game with higher skills, and his character with higher stats.

On the one hand, I think duel points are an interesting and somewhat effective measure of dueling success. However, it can easily be abused. I earned all my dp fairly, mostly by dueling hundreds of times in the DR with friends, and with all the battling in the Dwarvesbane/Dwarven Star war. However, someone could create a new, weak character, and have it kill their strong character over and over, and they'd rack up lots of DP quickly. Of course their strong character would lose DP just as fast as their weak one gained them, but my point is that they can be abuse dishonorably (just like many other aspects to PS).

-Drahlian

I've killed a newbie who didin't know how to type /die or /unstick :p but he could easily click yes... gave me 0.00 dp's

[Nikodemus]

Duel points are set up so that if a weaker player defeats a stronger player, then will get >1 duel point. If a stronger character defeats a weaker one, they will get <1 duel point. In my dueling experience, I've gained as many as 4 duel points by killing a far stronger opponent, and gained as little as .1 duel points for killing a far weaker player after I became strong. One time I lost 16 duel points at once, when a noobie challenged me without a word, then ran away. I accepted and went to find him, but ended up hitting Unstick, which of course also yields, losing me 16 dp (and gaining him 16, I'm sure).

I've seen some inconsistencies, though. One time I started a brand new character, and a friend did the same. Neither character had trained anything, but for some reason, I only earned about .5 dp for a win, and lost 2 dp for a loss. I suspect that dp value is based on relative training, not stats. My character must have started the game with higher skills, and his character with higher stats.

-Drahlian

I believe the more ranks in all your skills you have, the stronger you are considered by the system. So if you have 10 ranks in 10 various skills like mining, you have 100 points in total and you are considered stronger than a guy with 25 rank sword and light armor. While the opposite is true. But i rather want to see other features, rather than DP fixed, coz IMHO they arent worth any work ;P

[zhai]

I think the DP system only counts ranks obtained in certain skills instead of them all (I'm pretty sure Mining isn't one of them), which makes it harder for some characters trained in skills that go up to 70 or 80 to obtain DP compared to those that max at 50 and so son (but who also have maxed other non-accountable skills).

I once was targeting Xylaal but somehow I ended challenging someone else, a newcomer who didn't know what was going on. I yielded and lost 40DP. So yeah, it's very easy to exploit the DP system so it might really not reflect at all your ability in PvP. A win-loss count could be more significant, but then with the combat bugs and all that wouldn't be completely accurate either.

[Kiraki]

I personally think DP are unnecessary.  Your character has no concept of them and would count his wins and loses as exactly that, not according to points. 
Having it for the sake of OOC comparison is pointless as it is too easily exploited and does not give a very accurate indication of skills or anything useful for that matter.  I am not to sure about the win-loss scoring though.  Kill a bunch of nuubs and you have a high score?  If this works differently please correct me, but the current way to gain DP seems better.

However if the current system where to be used I would say let the scores only be valid for fights taking place in a certain place, such as a PvP arena or such.  Thus any informal battles would not earn you any DP; only official challenges.  This would be more accurate as in reality there would only be records of the formal ones not the rest.  Anything other than this such as training with a friend or mugging and killing someone would not count towards this score but be left to your character to keep score of if they wish to do so.

[Nikodemus]

Very long time ago, I thought duel points are for the purposes of experience being calculated after player character defeat by another player character. Unlike to current mobs, every character is different, but experience has to to calculated. Probably i was completly wrong and DP had nothing to do with this experience. Devs did it so that you cant even train with PC (AFAIK), to avoid exploiting and so my hope is hopeless ;P.
DP has some potential and even if in current forum them mean not much, they could be of some help in developing the experience aspect.

The conclussion is funny.
Why all the story about experience and DP when at some point playing CB i realized the experience and PPs are completly not needed. I find it funny and hope someone else will too .