Author Topic: Line of endless text in character description.  (Read 2283 times)

Kezzik

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2006, 09:00:09 am »
to be hoenst, I haven't actually seen a description telling someones entire life story, just detailed descriptions, and hey, if you choose 'custom' in character creation, it too puts in a ton of lines showing your choices, one line per choice at that.

some people may not want to use the forum, some may not know, and some may choose to not post abotu their character their due to the fact they might not want comments or 'tips' on how to improve their character story, they may just want you to read their description in game and go by that, i suppose you right, maybe i should go play in a corner if I'm going to ignore other players suggestions, or maybe I should suggest people let these things be? I'm sure I'd be ignored for that though

Karyuu

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2006, 09:08:18 am »
What I don't understand in that case is why make suggestions at all? Why offer suggestions on how to correctly play evil characters, or how to RP fight, or how to create an interesting persona, if we're simply going to be patting people on the head and letting them go on their merry way all the time? :> There are some things which I feel can be done better, and so I make suggestions. If people don't want these tips to apply to them, so be it - no one can force you to alter your description. But if someone thinks that these ideas hold some merit, then this thread isn't useless.
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Kezzik

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2006, 09:23:15 am »
perhaps some people don't want to be told how to improve, they're happy with what they've got already, and you can't force them to chaneg their descriptions... yet, if someone goes on about it enough soon enough there'll be a GM command to edit someones description. and what if you do put in a character limit, that too restricts the creativity for a player to tell about their character.

the only thing i can really point out would to be enlarging the description window, players descriptions would seem a lot less hard to read if it was of a larger size, instead of crammed in that tiny box.

so, there's my suggestion, it isn't one that's going to cripple peoples choices, take it as you will, now I have to take someone elses kids to school

Peacer

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2006, 09:33:31 am »
write things that others can or possibly can see, that's my advice...

A background history may be an interesting read, but it's not worth putting there as other persons wouldn't know your lifestory just by looking at you.
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Kiirani

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2006, 10:21:01 am »
How about different sections of the descriptions are created, and also linked to a webapp which displays them in their entirety, as well as allowing players to edit them outsde of the game.

So there could be a section for entire backstories, then a section for basic appearance, a section for added details etc, as well as an area with the ingame character creation stats, and all of these could be optionally viewable ingame, as well as viewable from a section of the site. Ooh. Ideas, ideas..

Aside from that, I do agree with what I take to be the main points of this thread. I think that a simple summary of the character's appearance should be at the top of the description, with more details lower down, I also agree that it isn't "correct" to try and put thoughts into the viewers characters mind, have actions in descriptions or put entire backstories there. However I also don't think that any of these points should become enforced rules, nor do I think anyone else does, for that matter. People are free to write their descriptions as they please, whether they're "correct" by RP Elitist's standards or not :P
« Last Edit: October 13, 2006, 10:23:38 am by Kiirani »

Under the moon

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2006, 01:33:21 am »
@Kezzik: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=14126.msg277540#msg277540  Read it. Use it. Enjoy it. I have. :)

As to limiting peoples 'freedom' and creativity, I have also came up with an idea or two for that. The first one involves a change to the game code, the second does not.

Idea one: Quick glance. This is what a person would see as a first impression. The text would be limited in length so that it does not take five minutes to read. This window would pop up as you look at someone. However, there would be a new button at the bottom called "Look closer" or "Study". If you click that, you are taken to an unlimited text window where players can write 'til their fingers bleed (you know who to thank for that image). Also, a /tell could be auto sent to the player who is being looked at, such as "You may notice <name> is studying you." This could be based on your character's awareness stat (which we do not have, but should.) A second button could say "Backstory" or such, so that people reading can chose what they want to read, but the writer is not limited.

Other options would be a 'shortcut' type window for looking more closely at certain items or features that the writer thinks is important to their character, but you might not see at first glance. For example, if you think your coat is something special, then you would make a "Coat" link for folks to click. This would bring some interesting things to the game.

Idea two: I am going to start doing this with my characters. The descriptions are going to be short and concise, but give a feel for the character. At the end, I will be putting "Send a /tell if you wish to look closer at this character." or some such. I will then have several different /shortcuts set up for how close the player wants to look. /tell $target You may notice there is a gold amulet poking out of one pocket of her fine coat. *bla bla bla...much more details"  This allows for a short description in the window, yet options for more details. It also lets you know when someone is studying you. Finally, shortcuts are editable, and savable outside of the game and you can have several shortcuts for how your character looks.

Oh...and the wipes will have no affect on shortcuts.

drah

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2006, 01:02:14 pm »
I too am not a fan of long descriptions. -- I just kept mine simple.. what another person can see on the surface (general appearance and if it's obvious and observable to strangers.. behaviour as well) is all that's really needed.

Though, just to contradict myself.. I don't mind merchants putting their pricelist in their description... but that's just me ;)

Proglin

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2006, 01:54:26 pm »
Some one puts effort in writing a long description.


now there's two things you can do.

you read it...

or you don't....

now why was the fuss again?
yours, the entertainer

Karyuu

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2006, 06:25:45 pm »
I assume that you want everyone who stops to read your description actually finish reading it, instead of quitting mid-way because you're suddenly explaining how your character was kidnapped as a child and has many emotional traumas that you're not even supposed to know about so you just end up going "" The "fuss" as you put it (which actually contained feature suggestions as well) is to say Hey, maybe ten paragraphs isn't such a good idea for what others are only supposed to see on the outside and at short studying glance. If you put effort into writing an epic and the majority of people are ignoring it, that effort is gone anyway.
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Under the moon

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2006, 06:37:35 pm »
Proglin, the long descriptions do the same thing as lines of empty space. They hide the coveted "you evaluate" info from easy access.

Plus, all that work writing is for nothing at the first sign of a wipe. The forum does not get wiped ever. The game does. Your choice as to how important you work is to you.

Long desciptions take away from roleplaying, not add to it. If everyone had to read 5 to 10 minutes of text ingame to get "all the details", then think of all the quiet time you would have, or conversations you would have to catch up with. Oh...and it takes away from your leveling time as well. :P

Kezzik

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2006, 09:35:56 pm »
I've kept a copy of my description on paper, short of a fire i'm not going to lose it due to wipes technical faults or drooling babies.

Moon: yeah I've had a look atcha mod, haven't got around to putting it in, because I'm lazy in that way.

sure it does get frustrating that someone tells you about their childhood, but some people however have descriptions of their character as long as someone elses life history

* Kezzik shrugs

and I really don't care about the "you evaluate that Mr.Fluffypants is about as waffley as you"

afterall, that just promotes combatitive elements and stats doesn't it.

I've run out of things to do.. so I thnk i'll go try that mod now..

zanzibar

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2006, 11:16:55 pm »
"her love of all things good and beautiful incline her towards good deed, like generoisty and helping others out?"

^bad

or "her eyes shine with an innocent idealism?"

^not bad



You can't tell what someone is thinking or inclined to do simply by looking at them.



to be hoenst, I haven't actually seen a description telling someones entire life story, just detailed descriptions, and hey, if you choose 'custom' in character creation, it too puts in a ton of lines showing your choices, one line per choice at that.


I agree that those lines should be eliminated from character descriptions.  I've seen many character descriptions that have the character's biography writen in them.  It's a common problem.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2006, 11:18:35 pm by zanzibar »
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

Kalika

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2006, 12:23:14 am »
 :whistling:

i took all that sutff out...no need to quote my ignorance any more

thanks

'she lies with her arms flung out as if to embrace the whole hyancinth-scented, watermelon-colored world.'

Seytra

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2006, 02:34:47 am »
I am a bit surprised that this actually seems to be an issue. In fact, it seems to be a major problem. And this at a time where I have been pleasantly surprised that the number of usable (read: edited) descriptions has finally gone up....
Seriously, I've seen a few bad descriptions that also were long. People have put poems in it, for example, or lists of whom they have killed. However, that were only a few, most descriptions were not touched at all, or contained only the original problem of empty lines and false "You evaluate" text.

The latter has (mostly) gone, and I do not think that simply having a somewhat longer description is similar to that problem, because it does 1) not try to provide false information and 2) not tries to hide the system message (you always know that it's there). It is not the fault of the description writer that the system message is not put in an extra text field at either the top or bottom of the window, and instead appended to the description text.

I certainly don't read excessively fast, and right from the beginning I've encountered long descriptions. Usually I'm able to read the description while participating in the conversation. At other times, I OOC-ly state that I'm reading their description, so they know why I'm not paying attention. Keeping an eye on the chat box, one can skim through the description, or pause reading for a while, even shove the window outside the screen to resume reading later (you don't have to close it, and it can stay there for hours, even after the player logs out), whenever there's some quiet time.

While all of this surely isn't the most convenient thing, and UtM certainly does have a point, it's not that bad. Also, usually it isn't even very important for the RP at hand to have fully read the other's description (the exceptions tend to be obvious upon first glance).

Regarding the wipe: I keep an exact copy of my description as a file on a server, so if need be I only need to type it back in.

This discussion has highlighted the benefit of formulations like "one may notice" over "you notice", even if no actions or thoughts are imposed upon the reader (which I've always taken care to avoid). I'll certainly review my description for it, but I'm not going to overdo it (for example, I'm still going to say "the glyph is red", even though some people are colorblind ;) ).

Regarding a character limit: I'd rather limit the number of characters that someone can create within a week, than the numbers of allowed characters in a description. In fact, I'm already weary of the one or two alts people tend to have, but if someone creates a character for each person that may occur in one of their stories, or play some side-role in their envisioned RP, then I can't help but wonder if they're truly RPing, not running a one-player-event, especialy when they're multi-clienting.

The abuses of the description feature that I have seen didn't coincide with an excess of characters, and given our new "quality guidelines", I expect to see the number of well-meant but badly done descriptions to plummet. After all, most players editing their descriptions do care for RP and other RPers, and also read the board, in contrast to those who seek to trick newbies into letting themselves get slaughtered. Also, I don't consider price lists as abuse of the description feature, just as I don't consider use of familiars as signs one, because there are relly no alternatives yet. Once alternatives exist, the problem will go away by itself.

Regarding the different sections: I don't think that's really needed. Maybe an "at a glance" section and a "closer look", but certainly no "life story" or similar sections. The /tell shortcuts may work, but I'm not going to use them, too much hassle, and too prone to misdirection AFAICS.

LigH

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Re: Line of endless text in character description.
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2006, 01:46:32 pm »
Just a small addition from my Point of View:

I enjoy personal descriptions.

But please, don't forget: The more time it takes to read them, the less likely one has time left to talk to you.

Especially non-native english speakers would hardly read through it all.

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