single blade, or twin blade... ideas

[Holdan]

Alright, now once sheilds are implemented im afraid not as many will use them because you can deal more damage with one weapon... now the mods may have concluded this already, but I am not yet aware of it.

Now heres an idea I kinda adopted and appreciated from the solo rpg game, KotOR

Single blade skill

and double blade skill

each a different trainable skill, one will make you stronger with one weapon and a sheild, or no shield, and the other with two blades, so as to even out the process...

A person with double blade skill will hit mutiple times, but will lack the defense a person with single blade skill and sheild has... This way both fields are equily appealing, one increases attack power when you use one attacking weapon, the other, for two, the first one also allows a shield so as to even out the use of two blades...


See where im going with this?

[Suno_Regin]

Actually, it should be done with one sword having 75% the power of having two swords (without using melee+sword when just 1 sword equipped). The reason why I say 75%, is because you're using two hands to hold the one sword, small or large, and with twin blades you only use 1 with each, and the two hits you get with them would be one hand power + one hand power, while two hand power would be about 75-100% of the total damage from dual blades.

Something like that, anyway. Hard to explain.

[Pestilence]

hhmmm well if I'm reading yout post I think you are suggesting that one blade should do about 3/4 damage from how much two baldes would do when dual wielding am I correct? Personally I would feel more for something like when you are dual wielding they both only deal 75% damage. So when you dual wield you don't do 200% of the damage but 150% compared to when you only use one.

There =is only one problem. Although game mechanicwise this seems about right. The question arises how realistic this is. I mean when you use two hands on one blade you would use more strength, but if you are using a shield wouldn't this mean you are only using one hand aswell? So why would a blade do less damage when you are holding another blade instead of a shield?

[Suno_Regin]

It depends. Some shields you can tie to your arm and still have a free hand. But with shields you actually hold, the damage would be cut by around 25% or so.

[bilbous]

There is also a problem with your assumption that using one weapon means using two hands. If you think about any fencing you may have seen with a light weapon you have one hand on the weapon and the other is behind you to help you balance as well as to present a smaller target ... in profile as opposed to full on.

[Holdan]

again, why there should be different skills for different fighting styles... and each fighting style would have its own benifits and downfalls..

thus making no one style superior alla round... look in real life, look at why these various styles were even used..

sword + sheild = attack and extra defence
sword = extra power, two hands, but no sheild, so somewhat lacked defense...
sword + sword = mutiple attacks, but less power per hit
sword + hand behind back = more dodging ability, but less defense if hit, and less attack

every style has benifits, like I said, but each has draw backs so as to make none ultimantly superior...

[Suno_Regin]

There is also a problem with your assumption that using one weapon means using two hands. If you think about any fencing you may have seen with a light weapon you have one hand on the weapon and the other is behind you to help you balance as well as to present a smaller target ... in profile as opposed to full on.

Well you don't have to use both hands all the time.

Say, you take the sword, swing-around and slash with one hand, then put your other hand on and slash? One weapon would be both 50% and 75% of dual weapons, depending on when you're using one hand and when you're using two.

[Pestilence]

Well ofcourse something like that should be implemented Holdan. The question ofcourse is what system looks best with reality, becuase a lot of systems used in games have little to do wit reality and so this is the place and time to think of what advantages would certain fighting styles really give and how could we put this best balanced in the game

Does fighting with two swords give you less power per hit? I guess you wouldn't be able to use both swords with the same speed as when you are only using one, but why would there be less force behind them if you do hit?

And if your one hand sword is a light one like a rapier or even a short sword you wont be able to hold it with two hands and effectively using more strength. You would need something more like a longsword to be able to use two hands.

Shields in my eyes shouldn't give a defence bonus but a high chance, depending on shieldhandling ofcourse, to block hits. That is what shields are for after all to block hits not to soften the blow

[Suno_Regin]

Dual blades would hit with less power. You're not focused as much on the target. With one sword (using one or two hands, doesn't matter), you can get an accurate hit. But, with dual blades, you have to slash with one and then the other, and if you want good speed you're going to be focusing more on raising and stabbing/slashing with your other blade while you're already attacking with the other. With one blade, you can at least get an accurate attack with decent speed.

I still don't know what to do for shields, though.

[Pestilence]

hmm I have to disagree.

The comon use of udual wielding I have in mind would be one longer sword and one short(er) sword. With this style in mind I can't think of a reason why you would be more distracted when you hit then with the other. You would use one of your swords to try and neutralize the weapon of your oponent or to force your oponent to defend at one side and then go for the kill with the other blade.

A lot harder to train to do this effectively compared to the shield I am sure, but I don't see why someone who smells the kill there would be distracted. That would suggest a lack of training I thinkg becuase although it would be harder to train it should then be second nature and the training would focus on not getting distracted by the use of two blades at the same time, but making sure it is your oponent that is distracted by having two blades against him to worry about.

[zanzibar]

If you're using a shield and a sword instead of two swords, you're at a fundamental disadvantage.  Let's say that the shield blocks 50% of all hits to you.  Then it would seem that you and an oponent with two swords would be equals, right?

No.

The problem is that your enemy only needs to train two skills:  Sword and armour.  You, on the other hand, are burdened with a third skill to train:  Shield handling.  Therefore, for shield handling to be good, it needs to have an unballanced benefit given to it.  Otherwise, it will be better for fighters to just pour training into the other two relevant skills.



I don't like the idea of a seperate skill for using two swords.  I would imagine that such a skill is implicit in the various weapon skills.  Instead, what I would like to see is that certain weapons require two hands.  Claymore would be a good example of this.  Really, Claymore should have speed 3.00 and slash 6.3, and it should require two hands.  If 3.00 seems too fast given that broadswords are 3.00, I'll remind you that a battle axe is only 2.40 - much faster than the broadsword.  Broadswords should therefore be tweaked as well.




I also don't like the idea of people being able to wield two long swords at the same time.  Two sabres, definately.  Even two short swords.  But two long swords would tire you out pretty quickly.

[Holdan]

Alright, we've concluded each style has its ups and downs, but thats not the point, im just suggesting there be a trainable skill for each style of handeling weapons... Thats the point of this thread, not how much damage each style does, so much as weather we should even have implemented styles of fighting with one blade, two, or a blade and a shiled, etc etc...

[zanzibar]

Alright, we've concluded each style has its ups and downs, but thats not the point, im just suggesting there be a trainable skill for each style of handeling weapons... Thats the point of this thread, not how much damage each style does, so much as weather we should even have implemented styles of fighting with one blade, two, or a blade and a shiled, etc etc...

Please read through my entire post.  You'll find that I addressed this.

[Pestilence]

hhmmm I would say different styles should be trainable.

But then Zanzibar has a good point about the sword and shield being seperate skills so my suggestion would be to train ingame what you would train in RL aswell.

A skill sword fighting with shield and a skill Sword fighting dualhanded and a skill swordfighting twohanded.

In RL you would definately have an advantage I guess when you mastered one but would still need to train quite a bit to master the other styles so feel this would closest resemble reality without going to complex.

[RayvenD]

If these ideas were going to happen though, surely making swords more realistic would help? Because there is no way you could weild a real bs ls or claymore in one hand anyway. it just isn't possible.