Crafted weapons

[Karyuu]

The maximum intended quality is 300/50. Is that somehow not "strong"? Perhaps you could explain your definition.

[sreamah]

I personally cant wait till they lower the quality to 50/50, or raise the quality to 1000/1000, or 100/100etc. but we will need to be able to make other stronger weapons, ie frosty, dark, silverweave. I figured the quality limits would lower after they introduced the stronger weapons.

***Plz plz plz, new blade types....***

[Nikodemus]

The maximum intended quality is 300/50.

What does that exactly mean?
Normally when one see x/y and y is bigger than x then one assume that x is scale beatwen y and 0.
But what do we have there exactly? :s
Additionally, when intended maximum is 300, then what the /50 exactly mean?
I don't quite see logic in this and it is bugging me.

[Gharan]

I see your point Nikodemus.

Shouldnt maximum be 50/50?

[fell_reavers]

My in game friends tell me that 300/50 crafted swords still hit with a significant amount of damage. Possibly comparable to a silverweave. Considering that it takes a whole mess of ore - like a *lot*- and three to four hours to craft one of the unreasonably-high quality weapons in the first place, my only problem is with calling people who used the features in the system to make them... cheaters.

Three of the best players in the game I know are now *cheaters*. One of them was rather disturbed by this appelation, to say the least. Any crafter in the game has spent a lot of time working with the system - time they can never get back - and it would be more professional to leave name calling out of the process of informing the players of such changes.

And this fix that is mentioned that is coming in a couple of days... is that going to be some kind of "quick" fix to the system or is the problem going to be addressed properly within the crafting system code?

[Tarel]

For as far as known, the fix, that is created atm, will not be a quick fix, but a full fix.

And considered that the bug is already posted more then a month ago in bugtracker by me,
it's called exploiting a bug ingame.
It containes a full explination how the bug is abused.
I already talked with developers back then too about the bug.
Only till yesterday nothing was done with the bug, because of some personal things in the Dev-team.

And it's nothing new, that i yesterday informed everyone at once about the bug-exploiting.
Me and some other GM's are telling it from person to person ingame too for weeks already too.
The upcoming updates speeded things up for me now, because we can see then, who is crafting/using the weapons, that are created with abusing the bug.

It's not a new rule from the GM's, that exploiting a bug is considered cheating.
It's has been added by the developers several years ago in the Players Policy.
And it is professional to talk about cheating, because everyone can read the Players Policy and everyone knows it, although many refuse to read it or ignore it.
Exploiting a bug is breaking the Players Policy.

Exploit: You will not exploit any bug in Planeshift and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Planeshift.
Bugs should be promptly reported to Game Masters.

This discussion looks much similar to the discussion, that was going on, when the so called "Ulber" weapons were wiped from the game.
People were not happy, that they got removed without any notice back then and caused discussion from the players too.
The final descisions are made by the developers and not by the players ingame.
When the devs change or wipe something, then the players can only follow the descision.

At least i gave a notice about it now, before the devs run the update.

[Karyuu]

The maximum intended quality is 300/50.

What does that exactly mean?

<Bakuun> How does the 300/50 work, with /50 exactly? :>
<Bakuun> Seems odd
<Ker_uni> the 50 shouldnt be displayed
<Ker_uni> its the base quality
<Bakuun> So it'll be 'turned off' in the future?
<Ker_uni> appearantly

[Nikodemus]

Great \o/
I only hope the quality wont increase the damage too much. It would be really bad if it was possible to make shortsword q:300 doing the same damage as slash 10 shortsword x)
As i was repeating once on topic about the uber weapons i say the same here: Keep the highest possible damage at reasonable limit.
I think everything will be fine.

[Kezzik]

i had a dagger with 400/50, first one I made, tested it a couple of times and it did about the same as the Iron daggers I had, so the crafted weapons have significant power with the effort put into making them, and that's how it should be too, theo nly other problem I see with it is that you spend all that time making a weapon, harnquist will only buy it for stupid amounts, whereas you could sell the stock and make ten times more profit, and most players dont see the value of a quality crafted item and thus wont buy anythign unless it has 'iron' 'silverweave' or 'superfunkykillingstickofdoom' plastered on it's name.

point of the statement? crafter's need an income for their efforts *nod nod*

[TomT]

The /50 part represents the normal quality maximum for the item.  Looted items will normally be found at the quality maximum.  Repaired weapons will only repair to the quality maximum.  But the quality of crafted items by skilled players will exceed the normal maximum.  Once the crafted items are worn out they will only be able to repair up to this quality; insuring work for the smith.

We were trying to get well skilled weapons to come out with a quality of about 200-300.  Some players have discovered exploits that can increase the quality of the weapons beyond this range.  Some of the exploits are simple and can increase the quality of the weapon in very little time.  We are planning to remove these exploits as soon as possible.

There are other exploits that increase the weapons quality that require hours and hours of work.  Although there are some crafting loops that were designed to increase the quality of the crafted item to some extent, it was not our intent to promote this sort of increase by monotonously repeating specific steps.  The law of diminishing returns should kick in.

So unfortunately we have created a problem where players have invested a large amount of time creating very powerful weapons; weapons that throw off the balance of the game.  We may soon need to set the quality of these items back to more expected values.  If you have spent a lot of time creating such weapons then I apologize.

I would just recommend that everyone think of the discovery of these exploits as part of the testing; from both the GM and the player’s perspective.  Thanks.

[fell_reavers]

TomT put a lot of thought into that statement. A very professional and well-worded summary of the issue. Thank you.

[Sisilam]

Just one point

@ Tarel .. do me a big big favor .. as well all others that write into the bugtracker .. if you found a bug .. PLEASE WRITE A NEW REPORT !!! Sub reports to existing ones are bad .. it is more likely that a sticky on the closet of the white house is more often read as a sub posting of a bug that seems to have the same topic.

I once read this bug .. yes .. long before there was this subposting .. so I saw the bug saw that it was about stacking and for me that bug was closed and away out of mind, stored in a total different direction than the 1000/50 thing. I very often look for NEW bugs .. but I'm not aware to dig for all subpostings made in the last week!

So please .. if someone found a BUG .. search the bugtracker if THIS and only THIS bug is existing .. where the content is significant and NOT the headline which is only a short description! The content as well describes in which direction it goes and stacking of items is something total different than crafting! So if teher is no bug about that particular problem .. create a new one. This at least has an additional effect .. everybody is able to see the 5 newest bug right after opening the bugtracker .. please use this effort of the bugtracker. I more like throw a bug away that was for the loot than have hundreds of subposting which are hard to find and hard to control!

.. just my 2 cents

[chazarus]

The 1000/50 's can be stopped by making it ao you cant a)hammer a finished blade on the anvil and b)cannot increase quality of a dull or sharpened blade in the forge take away the power to do those things and it is impossible to make one.

[Datruth]

I tested a 300 quality SS, and it hits like a slash 4, or a /3.8, to be more exact.

I couldn't find a 300 quality dagger, but i tested a 250 quality and it hit like a /2.8.

At best i can call 300 quality a bit above average, nothing special, and nothing worth crafting for.

The time it takes to get it to 300 will not be worth the price these weapons fetch, there won't be much demand for them, and crafters thus will not craft them.

Again, i hope a Dev could read my first post and answer whether crafters will ever be able to craft /10 weapons or weapons with that strength.

~~Datruth

[Karyuu]

<Bakuun> TomT: are crafted items meant to be better overall than found loot? If so, would it be safe to assume that adjustments will be done to have crafted items deal more damage than the average weapon found from an NPC?
<TomT|away> yes

Thus (once more tweaking to the system is done) crafted weapons will be at the top of the weapon chain. But as they wear out, you will only be able to repair them to the maximum of 50, the same quality as any looted weapon.