Author Topic: Player To Player Combat: Earning Ranks  (Read 750 times)

Sangwa

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Player To Player Combat: Earning Ranks
« on: October 15, 2006, 11:29:00 pm »
I attempted to search for this, but had no success in finding it. Sorry if it was already talked about.

I believe players should be able to earn PPs and ranks in skills (when possible) by practising against each other. Or in a duel. I believe it could be exploited only to a little degree, even if you would earn PPs without killing you adversary. Mainly because you earn no trias while doing this. In fact, sometimes you might pay.
It makes sense, as I am quite sure you'd learn as much or more from fighting a trepor than you'd learn from fighting a humanoid.

What say you?
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and I can be reasoned with. I'm probably right, though.

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Nikodemus

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Re: Player To Player Combat: Earning Ranks
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2006, 11:51:13 pm »
I remember UtM said not so long ago, that it is so much wrong that novices into fighting, goes learning on real foes, while they should train on dummies. We fight for the one or few moments when we really need it. We don't do it to train x).
I believe, two PCs fighting with each other, when they don't mean to kill each other, is in fact the right way of training. They practice and try to prepare themselves for the real batte.
It is what i would call IC behaviour, while going fighting monsters is a game artifact. We have moved so far, that it is even called as normal behaviour, and in games like PS the training process is the other way around ;P The question is if we should try to do something about it or just acept that a world inside a game doesn't go around he same rules as real world, because in game world people from real world want to have fun, while in real, they often fear, or the consequences are not worth it.
What i think we should try to achieve, is never calling exploiting, something what is natural to real world and is needed to be remined the online players ;)

The consequences of traing beatwen two PCs:
We start ranking up faster. Because the only problem will be money. People will train next to a NPC trainer. Only before they will accumulate enough money and PP for few ranks.
What can be done about it:
- we should really have some law in towns (most trainers are in towns) eg: you pay a fee if you fight in a city. It is forbidden and you can even land in jail when you continue after paying few fees.
- a trainer can't give you training for next rank too often. It is already OOC that you gain the theoretical knowledge at once, so maybe lets do it that you have to wait some reasonable time, before you can learn theoretical knowledge for next rank.



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Faolach

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Re: Player To Player Combat: Earning Ranks
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2006, 11:54:37 pm »
Makes sense to me. I didn't even know that you couldn't get pp while dueling. I just think that you should get as many exp as you would get if the opponent was a monster (or something like that). That way you would only get a little exp from killing a newbie, but a lot from killing a high-level player. Of course it would be even better if the no-death duels were implemented.

Nikodemus

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Re: Player To Player Combat: Earning Ranks
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2006, 12:01:01 am »
The problem is there is no formula which would calculate how many PPs is each character worth ;P. If it existed, devs wouldn't have to assign PP values to each NPC manually. And it is that way now, what is IMHO bad.

EDIT
I have forgotten to add that PPs don't have sense anyway ;P
« Last Edit: October 16, 2006, 12:04:01 am by Nikodemus »



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Faolach

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Re: Player To Player Combat: Earning Ranks
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2006, 01:19:31 am »
Oh.  :oops: . Well, i imagine that an equation wouldn't be that hard to make, but I don't know much about coding... Maybe it could be somthing like attack skill with current weapon type / your attack skill with your current weapon. The higher your level is, the lower amount of exp you will get in relation to the opponent. I don't know much about these things, though...

Under the moon

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Re: Player To Player Combat: Earning Ranks
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2006, 05:09:29 am »
Yes, Nikodemus, I said that, and still agree with it. The entire training system is 180 degrees from anything resembling reality. And by that, I mean anything roleplayable as actual humanoid behavior. PP also make no sense in any way to RP. The only thing I can remotly equate them to is a form of elitism. The NPCs take one look at you and see that you are not good enough for them to give you more theory because you have not met the quota of dead rats. :/

Training from other players is far better for RP and PL. A trainer that can teach well would have to train the teaching skill, which would have to be learned from an NPC master. The student is taught skills by the teacher (NPC or player) that he has the ability to learn based on skills already earned. Once that skill is 'maxed' in -that- level, the student goes back to the trainer for more teaching. I do not see where PP and money are even needed between players, if not required by RP. I also think the student should have to spend a certain amout of time with the teacher (NPC or player) before the lesson 'sticks'. This will encourage people to actually talk to each other, and learn how to play a true RPG through interaction with mentors.

If that is a bad way to do it, and the current system is seen as the future of the game, I kindly ask that RP be removed from MMORPG.

zanzibar

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Re: Player To Player Combat: Earning Ranks
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2006, 08:42:33 am »
If PS had a realistic system though, then it would also be somewhat unoriginal.  Basically:

You increase in skill by practicing the skill.
Training improves specific skills at a faster rate.
You can only train so much in a certain period of time.

That's the ideal system for a realistic approach.  It's also straight out of X other RPGs.
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Natrina

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Re: Player To Player Combat: Earning Ranks
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2006, 04:55:12 pm »
 Well, the worst thing that happens nowadays is that leveling up craft and related skills needs killing animals to get the said PPs. I mean, mining gives you some PPs but it doesn't even get close enough to killing (unless all you kill are rats and even so...) and some crafts give you no experience at all for doing them. The present system totally doesn't support crafter-only characters. But oh well, I may be going off-topic now.

 I also didn't know that duels didn't give PPs at all, but it makes sense if the devs have to manually define the monsters' PPs number. Training with other players sword fight and so on would be indeed, as previous said, better for roleplay and reality. But maybe training with PCs should give less compared experience then fighting with real enemies, as in reality, too, trainning doesn't get you all prepared for fighting with an enemy that truly wants to kill you in all ways possible.

Those are my five cents.

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Nikodemus

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Re: Player To Player Combat: Earning Ranks
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2006, 05:42:00 pm »
PPs are evil ;>



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