Utility spells and an idea for balance

[bilbous]

Part of the problem with such a wish list is that some effects are nearly impossible to impliment in a game system. If you take a look at traditional D&D and compare it to the computer versions the spell lists are always shorter on the computer and the effects are often less. Take for instance a teleport spell. In the tabletop game your destination can be just about anywhere you want subject to your expertise level but in any computer game it is almost always limited to a set of specific locations. Now it would be possible to have user defined tp sites but you would have to go somewhere and mark the location first unless you want people using the coordinate system. That could lead to some nasty surprises such as materialising 100 ft above or below the ground. How it could work is you go somewhere and spend some time studying the surrounding then at the end of the marking spell you would give the location a unique name. Thereafter you would be able to "/cast teleport home." You could build up a list of places to TP and your list could be restricted in length according to skill level.

Illusion spells are most problematic as it deals with characters perceptions rather than reality. I could make that bottomless pit look like a charming tavern but that would involve altering the world geometry because the bottomless pit is only there because it looks like it is there and you fall if you step in it. There are only a limited number of models available, more can be made but not at a whim. It takes some doing.

[Polar]

Aye, I realise the need for practicality at  a time in which there are only a handful of programmers , I was just throwing some things out there. (I'd help with the programming if I could, but unless it's Dspeak or something like the system in NWN where it's essentially plugging in values, I'm about as proficient as a monkey on a typewriter. Not a thousand, just one.) The mass levitation thing could be interesting, depending on how you handled it. (To be useful, you would have to at least partially be able to control the horizontal movement after you were levitating a bit of the ol' up 'n down.)

In theory, you could use something like a light spell to illuminate the area around you. Whether a physical manifestation or a general circle of light spread around your character. A lot of RPGs do this. (I'm not sure whether or not it's already been implemented, to be truthful. The last time I played PS was years ago. I don't think there was actually a skill bar at the time.) That could be useful in any number of situations.

Also, in regard to mining, there was a spell in an older game I played,  Betrayal In Antara, I believe, that allowed you to see where minerals were hidden in stone. It wouldn't allow you to extract them unless you had the proper tools, but you could find out where they are specifically. This would encourage miner/wizard teams (as discussed, whether the miners and likewise wizards would be mercenaries or not would depend on the situation.)

But yea, I suppose the only problem is the current lack of programming personelle. It's difficult to organize a list of priorities when y'know whatever you try to do will take you forever.

--Polar

[Nikodemus]

The movement in the air is extremal simple.... but PS need to implement mouslook for this. We have it already and the only problem with it, is when it is on, the interaction with world with use of mousebuttons is disabled. If not this, there wouldn't be ever discussion about movement problems
As for levitating others. I suppose they will just keep the same height as the mage, or if the mage won't levitate, he use movement interface like he was the person who is levitated.

I have been also thinking about using magic for prospecting. But more of magic tool for miners. A tool which would show distance and direction to discovered resource. The path wouldn't be straight and there could be few points on it, which would lead to the resource. Additionaly, the prospector would have to buy some rods or alike, which would have to be put into the ground and once used, the the prospector would try to find the resource with use of the tool. Rots would have to be bought and each rot one use only.
Just an idea. I know it would be really great fun for miners to look in this way for resources, instead of digging everytime in the same place.
Sometimes small mines could be found and we could have more complex behaviour for multiple miners, mining in a mine found by only one prospector, if the mine would be big enough.

[The Shadow Nose]

Spells for map-makers

Birds eye View:
When cast, the players camera view shifts to a top-down perspective and then zooms out to view the surrounding area. (As if they were a bird flying high in the air and looking down, or more appropriatly were having an out-of body experience and looking down from above) After about 30 seconds the camera view returns to normal. Should be enough time to find any landmarks or players they want to find, but long enough you don't want to do it during combat or while doing anything risky.

Would be useful for people making maps of areas or if the absolutly NEED to have an 'in-game' map (though its technically not a map) could have limited use if used indoors or in a cave due to ceilings.


Mining Echo:
causes a subtrarainian pulse underground, if there are any mineral deposits or buried items it returns the distance to the closest of those underground items. For example, if there is an iron mine 45 yards away, it returns the distance '45 yards'. A miner would not know what was found or in what direction it was. Would need to use over various points to triangulate the mines position.


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Oh, and I am personally pretty interested in the idea of a limited life-span for characters. Allow players to carry over some of their knowlege, skills, and equipment to an 'heir' and you might have something. Sort of instead of running around making an uber-character who can do anything, the player manages a line of characters over several generations.

Actually... that would require completly re-working the entire training system because people faced with a limited lifespan might not be able to genocide over 1000 rogues and trepors to get the XP needed to get lvl 10 metallurgy or mining.

Meh, forget I said anything.

[Phinehas]

Also, in regard to mining, there was a spell in an older game I played,  Betrayal In Antara, I believe, that allowed you to see where minerals were hidden in stone. It wouldn't allow you to extract them unless you had the proper tools, but you could find out where they are specifically. This would encourage miner/wizard teams (as discussed, whether the miners and likewise wizards would be mercenaries or not would depend on the situation.)

That's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. Actual useful spells.

I have been also thinking about using magic for prospecting. But more of magic tool for miners. A tool which would show distance and direction to discovered resource.

I'd have to say that I don't like this so much. The more magic items there are that can do everything a wizard does, the less need for wizards. I think that the world should need wizards in the same way it needs miners or traders or swordsmen. Wizards shouldn't be an "Oh, and if you feel like being a magic-wielder, go for it, but there's not much point" sort of class, it should have a valid contribution. Now, perhaps it would be cool if a wizard could imbue an item with a spell, and therefore create items that they could sell to miners or other sorts, but I'm against the idea of going to the store and picking up a Rod of Ore Location on your way out to mine.

[Nikodemus]

If not a tool whiuch may be used by non-mages, what about the same tool but this time it has to be used by somewhat skilled mage? I mean, maybe the prospecting isn't that easy and with use of a tools, a mage may localize the spot with approx to 1 meter.
In such idea, mages are more than needed, but what we will gain are: half miners and half mages specialised in prospecting. Its because prospecting is fun, while mining the resource is the "fruit" of it.
Maybe we will have mage prospectors and miners only working in pairs from time to time, but half mage half moner will be common proffesion.

[Phinehas]

That might work I suppose. I'm just saying that magic is magic, not another tool, not a form of weapon that consists of sticking the pointy end into a person and therefore requires no intellect whatsoever, magic should be a limited thing, where only those who have really studied it can handle it. I'm not talking about enchanted swords where the only thing magic does is enhance damage inflicted, but I am saying that "yer av'rage drunk dwarven miner" shouldn't be able to pull out his Rod of Ore Location, concentrate deeply despite the drunken stupor, and have the magic subtly speak to him, pointing out the location of the ores he desires...

[bilbous]

Unless maybe that would make the item malfunction?

[zanzibar]

Going back to the first post of the thread, this is all stuff that has been talked about multiple times in older threads.  The suggestions on intelligence and powerlevellers would do nothing to limit powerlevellers.  Powerlevellers have more resources to alter their characters, so they'll always be the most powerful.  The only way to stop them is to change what it means to be the most powerful.

So  to this thread.  Sorry.

[Phinehas]

Yes, we know you hate me, now... back to the conversation...

[zanzibar]

Yes, we know you hate me, now... back to the conversation...

Whoa, sensitive.  I thought you wanted people to be objective about ideas?  That's all I'm doing.  If it means so much to you, I'm sorry I said anything.

[Phinehas]

Well, let's just say that everytime I say or post something, you're right there to throw it back in my face with some rather subjective negativity. I'm getting sick of it. For instance, in this thread, people have already thrown a few ideas around and enjoyed thinking about what could and might be. I'd say that already warrants a  .

[zanzibar]

Well, let's just say that everytime I say or post something, you're right there to throw it back in my face with some rather subjective negativity. I'm getting sick of it. For instance, in this thread, people have already thrown a few ideas around and enjoyed thinking about what could and might be. I'd say that already warrants a  .

You really like that word, "subjective".  You seem to use it whenever you disagree with something.  So everything you agree with is "objective", and everything you disagree with is "subjective".  Hmm.

If you think that I'm replying to everything you say or post, then you're just plain paranoid.  How about we get back on topic now?

[Phinehas]

Well, let's just say that everytime I say or post something, you're right there to throw it back in my face with some rather subjective negativity. I'm getting sick of it. For instance, in this thread, people have already thrown a few ideas around and enjoyed thinking about what could and might be. I'd say that already warrants a  .

You really like that word, "subjective".  You seem to use it whenever you disagree with something.  So everything you agree with is "objective", and everything you disagree with is "subjective".  Hmm.

Mmm... let's ask around, shall we? In fact, let's make a huge controversial thread and name it "Zanzibar vs Phinehas" and find out what people think... 

If you think that I'm replying to everything you say or post, then you're just plain paranoid.  How about we get back on topic now?

Yes, let's.

[Karyuu]

*carefully steers the thread away from Flameland back to Constructive Commentary Country*

If I recall correctly, 'utility spells' is something Xordan has been wanting to work on for a while now. Combat magic is all nice and well, but I agree that the chance for mages to have fun with their talents and do something besides smash or make more smashable should be available. Work on magic is a bit slow as Xordan is getting his soul eaten by school at the moment while Talad keeps poking at him with a stick, but I believe that sort of spell variety will indeed happen.

Concerning the second proposal on limitations:

Basically, I'm suggesting a system in which the better you are at magic, the worse you're going to be at using weapons. Conversely, if you are the world's best sword fighter, you won't know squat about magic. I think this would add a lot of reality to the game and make mages a more valid "class".

"Classes" and class-like settings is something PlaneShift is trying to avoid - the freedom here is limited only by your time and effort. Thus if someone wants to pursue a physical fighting skill but study magic on the side, they'd have that opportunity. Of course the better they'd want to become, the more time they would have to spend studying and practicing, which will naturally slow down the progression of both or either. Progression in the future will be nothing as it is now, so to attain a higher rank (and to actually max something out) you'd need some serious effort (of course the goal is to have it immensly fun as well; no need to be cynical, all you "pure roleplayers" - "leveling" can be made enjoyable as well if it's done right). That sort of division however, magic or swords, feels too restricting personally.