The RP victor!

[Datruth]

I've explained that I don't and cannot level, therefore I cannot duel to the same extent that my character should be able to.

So you have no way to prove how strong you are except the amount of time you've spent talking.

Basically, your strength= Amount of time in game & Talking ability with use of good diction.

I think stats effect RP, if someones stats are nill, i feel that has an effect on their RP, you on the other hand feel stats are useless, the Devs disagree with you.

Please Datruth, I know you don't like me, but that's no reason to hijack my thread.

I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone. I'm not trying to prove my characters better or that I'm smarter or a better RPer or that I've spent more time clicking on monsters than the 14-year olds with nothing to do... I'm trying to have fun, and I believe a certain general order should be established to make this possible at a higher level than chaos.

I would like it stated in the PS forums record that I, Datruth, Do not hate Phineas.

I actually have some respect for him. The only thing i could say is I dislike his critiquing ability.

And this is a forum, there is no such thing as hijacking a thread.
Let me reiterate that:

fo‧rum  /ˈfɔrəm, ˈfoʊrəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fawr-uhm, fohr-uhm]
an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.

Please, I'm talking about RP fighting, if you've never done it or aren't interested, don't post, but don't post saying that the whole idea sucks and we're morons for doing it. That's just foolish and insulting.

I never said it was foolish, nor did i say the idea sucks.

I said, it doesn't exist. Why are you so mad lol   . I don't bite
You can't RP fight.
Look at the first post you made, basically you are asking how people become victors in an RP fight.

You don't know, yet you have an idea about it, basically, the victor is always the oldest character.
Regardless of skills, stats, popularity, or whether you rp better than them, If you are older, you win. That's just wrong.

There isn't a system of how to RP fight, there are no rules, you type what you like, and then no victor is decided.

If i'm wrong, please feel free to state it and tell me how you RP fight and have a victor, what the rules are, and what the case would be if two people of equal age fought one another.

Gharan, I don't know anything about a special power. I RP a wizard, and so can use magic, this is not a "special power" it's what I do. If you're saying can everyone have one super-hero type power aside from their normal character abilities and RP, the answer would be no, of course not. If someone is a great mage who can set himself on fire and not get hurt, stab him with something long-handled.

Who are you to decide that ruling?

I happen to agree with your decision.... But who are you to decide it?

You would need agreement between everyone in Ylaikum to enforce this ruling.
That or the Dev team would tell the GM's to enforce it and write about it on the Forums.
You do not have the power to make such rulings.

@Kezzik: Exactly.

Sorry, I disagree.

Somoene could also, theoretically, come in game and a month later claim to be a powerfull mage.
What's the difference?
You say someone maxing stats in a month, very unlikely yet still possible, and I say somoene who plays for a month and says he's a powerfull mage.

Your RP ability should come into play.
If someone who is 10X the RPer of another person But has only been playing the game for 6 months has an "RP" fight, he would lose to a BAD RPER who has been on for a year.
In your system anyways.

It's flawed really. Time Doesn't equal strength. Nor does it equal intelliigence. Certain people who are 50 are dumber than average 20 year olds.
This system doesn't take ability, stats, or popularity into account.

You want to RP fight, go ahead, i don't have a problem with it, except there is no winner or loser, at the end of the fight, you both have made your fingers tired for nothing.

~~Datruth

[Kezzik]

I'm going to completely disregard the rest of the post for sake of sanity.

however

....You say someone maxing stats in a month, very unlikely yet still possible...

Strength, Agllity, Endurance, Intelligence. 5 days.

but I still RP that I'm not strong. I have an eery feeling, it's like.. a broken record.

[Datruth]

I'm going to completely disregard the rest of the post for sake of sanity.

however

....You say someone maxing stats in a month, very unlikely yet still possible...

Strength, Agllity, Endurance, Intelligence. 5 days.

but I still RP that I'm not strong. I have an eery feeling, it's like.. a broken record.

Most of us have lives that stop us from constant Planeshift.
It's funny you disregarded us all.

There is school for some, Work for others, a mixture of both, or just the need to go into the great outdoors.
Regardless, we all can't spend 5 or 6 hours a day playing Planeshift.

But if you have that kind of time, be my guest.
Hence the reason i used the word, "unlikely".

~~Datruth

Disclaimer: Disregarding parts of a post might make it seem as if you agree with it, or have no rebuttal.

[Kezzik]

Most of us have lives that stop us from constant Planeshift.
It's funny you disregarded us all.

you seem to spend plenty enough time gassing off.
I don't disregard everyone or everything, just that post.

There is school for some, Work for others, a mixture of both, or just the need to go into the great outdoors.
Regardless, we all can't spend 5 or 6 hours a day playing Planeshift.

nice way of trying to say I don't have a life because I managed to beat your 'presumtions' of the time it would take to max out some stats ingame.

But if you have that kind of time, be my guest.
Hence the reason i used the word, "unlikely".

~~Datruth

Disclaimer: Disregarding parts of a post might make it seem as if you agree with it, or have no rebuttal.

your guest? since when did you become the host.
unlikely is more common then not if that's the case then, peopel have done this much faster then I, plenty of people.

~~Kezzik i can sign my posts too! : D

Disclaimer: more of the latter, oh, and can you sense a slight hint of sarcastic bastard in me? ; )

[Kalika]

 

ahaha was the point of this thread to pick out each others "false or mislead" points?

Kalika hugs everyone and kisses them on teh cheek

[zhai]

Being around a lot of time doesn't make you a better RPer, just like being older doesn't make you wiser IRL necessarily. It can usually be the case BUT I find it as arbitrary as using game mechanics as an only reference to determine who would be the stronger char. There has to be a balance between character personality/objective and stats to avoid both god-RP and "I'll /challenge if you look at me funny" situations. Because being "significantly stronger" than other players or not having certain skills implemented in the game are both with one foot in the OOC area.

The way I see it, your character is only as strong/powerful/beautiful RP-wise as others let you be. It's part of RP.

Let's say your character has a heated argument with someone else's and that things are getting violent, well, there's the /roll command to determine success of the actions. Why use it? Because it's impartial. Both characters should have a margin of success as well as failure and that should never be left out no matter what mechs or rules are resorted to. You've been around for a long time and consistent about your skills (in other words you didn't wake up today and said "I had Talad for tea and he made me a mutant") so your chances of success are rather high. This is all negotiable. If the person you're talking to refuses to do this little OOC negotiation... er... [rant]because they are not able to accept that their chars should have limitations, probably because they build them as improved/impossible/picture perfect/front cover versions of themselves[/rant]... then not much to do there. However, it should settle the problem. You might be an uber warrior or wizard but you had a bad day and got your butt kicked.

Now, personally, I avoid RP duels, in fact I quite dislike them, especially because they allow pretty much anything*. Game mechs aren't perfect but they can be impartial and if agreed by all parties, it can settle things fairly.

Edit: I should specify I'm referring to RP-duels as in "/me jumps over <name> kicking the wall to make a 180 degree turn in mid air as his blades cut <them> in half" with no /roll or prior agreement on skills like "I can matrix" and stuff. Avoiding an impartial frame of action seems to be the problem.

[Phinehas]

Datruth, I'm really not trying to dig at you personally here, it's just an observation... Your posts seem like a lot of hot air to me, you don't follow your own conclusions to the end.

People do RP fight. You say it doesn't exist. That's a foolish thing to say, of course it exists. I've done it. All I'm looking for is a way to keep bad RPers from ruining good RP. Truly good RPers would not create god characters, and would know in an RP fight when they are losing. Bad RPers never want to lose and not only that, they usually want to have the pleasure of crushing their opponents like ants.

I could be wrong here, but I don't think you're much of an RPer, are you? Your replies seem like the answers of a mostly non-RPer.

For clarification, I'm not asking how to RP fight. I've done that. I'm asking how we're going to keep the power level of characters from turning into total chaos. Usually, when people RP fight on, say, a forum, it's a small group and so everyone knows their roles and their strengths and weaknesses in relation to the rest of the players. It's not like that in an mmorpg, so I'm looking to establish some vague uniformity.

You accuse me of saying that I'm equating power with amount of time spent in-game talking to people. Very well, I'll accuse you of equating power with the amount of time spent in-game clicking on things. Why is one so much better than the other? The game is about having fun. If you enjoy levelling, be my guest, I however, enjoy RP. What's wrong with that? I'm not going to go up to a powerlever and say, "I pwn you 'cuz I RP awesome!" So why would you even care what RP fighting is all about if you're not going to do it?

As for who am I to make a ruling on things... It's common sense. You're telling me that cheating isn't bad until everyone in the whole world votes and says it's bad? Some people don't like my criticism. Who are they to make that ruling? Did they ask everyone in the PS community and talk to the devs to get a ruling saying Phin's criticism is bad? That's just nonsensical.

As for you saying that my system is flawed, I would say that your perception of RP is flawed. Like I said above, this system is meant only to protect the good RPers from the bad ones, not to be written in stone and repeated to your children every day and twice on Monday. This system doesn't say that Sangwa would kick my butt 'cause he's been on a year longer than me, or that I would kick Peacer's butt 'cause I've been on longer than him. It's simply saying that someone can't show up and say, "I'm t3h awesome!" without anything to back it up. For levellers that would be levelling, for RPers that would be this system.

Again, this is a temporary fix until the game is more developed at which time hopefully it will be more balanced and not require us to make up our own supplementary systems.

I'm sorry I didn't quote your post with answers to each section as I realize I should have done now. I understand now what Kezzik meant about ignoring your post for the sake of sanity.

edit:

Game mechs aren't perfect but they can be impartial and if agreed by all parties, it can settle things fairly.

Most of your post is answered in this one, but I'd like to point out that game mechs are definitely not impartial to "pure" mages. Also, about avoiding RP fights. This is not a thread saying everyone should now forget the game mechanics or the dueling ability and simply RP fight. Like I said, if you don't want to, don't do it. I'm trying to talk to and with the people who do.

[Gharan]

Now, personally, I avoid RP duels, in fact I quite dislike them, especially because they allow pretty much anything. Game mechs aren't perfect but they can be impartial and if agreed by all parties, it can settle things fairly.

Couldn't agree more infact most RP duels end up OOC were one is accusing the other of godmodding etc

Just break out the Silverweaves and have a good old scrap  
EDIT but don't forget to RP your way into the fight

[Datruth]

Most of us have lives that stop us from constant Planeshift.
It's funny you disregarded us all.

you seem to spend plenty enough time gassing off.
I don't disregard everyone or everything, just that post.

Well thank you, I'm glad my post was special enough to be disregarded.

I am deeply touched by the way.

There is school for some, Work for others, a mixture of both, or just the need to go into the great outdoors.
Regardless, we all can't spend 5 or 6 hours a day playing Planeshift.

nice way of trying to say I don't have a life because I managed to beat your 'presumtions' of the time it would take to max out some stats ingame.

I never said that. All i said was that most people don't have that kind of time.

Please tell me that most people can max their stats in 5 days.
Just say it and your point is valid and then we can argue about whose presumptions are more correct.

I know you won't because even you know it takes an astounding amount of effort to get your stats maxed in 5 days.
The kind of effort that most people don't have the time to give.

But if you have that kind of time, be my guest.
Hence the reason i used the word, "unlikely".

~~Datruth

Disclaimer: Disregarding parts of a post might make it seem as if you agree with it, or have no rebuttal.

your guest? since when did you become the host.
unlikely is more common then not if that's the case then, peopel have done this much faster then I, plenty of people.

~~Kezzik i can sign my posts too! : D

Disclaimer: more of the latter, oh, and can you sense a slight hint of sarcastic bastard in me? ; )

Lol, be my guest is an expression, not to be taken literally. If your being sarcastic well.... not funny

Oh and what does this mean:

"unlikely is more common then not if that's the case then, peopel have done this much faster then I, plenty of people."

Does that mean that on average people max their stats in 5 days? If so...  , Funny joke lol, let's get serious though.

Ya, i like the post signing thing, guess it helps me be more unique, oh and it's copywrited now sorry .
My lawyers will be over in an hour demanding royalties or giving you your lawsuit papers lol.

~Datruth

Disclaimer: Just had to put this here, no actual reason for it though lol

*edit*

I'm sorry I didn't quote your post with answers to each section as I realize I should have done now. I understand now what Kezzik meant about ignoring your post for the sake of sanity.

Lol, Good point, i'll try that.

It's better than trying to defend attacks to my character anyway or my RP ability.

Some would morally stay away from such attacks but I guess i should adopt other methods for you and be prepared for them.

~~Datruth

[Kezzik]

Well thank you, I'm glad my post was special enough to be disregarded.

I am deeply touched by the way.

nice for you

I never said that. All i said was that most people don't have that kind of time.

Please tell me that most people can max their stats in 5 days.
Just say it and your point is valid and then we can argue about whose presumptions are more correct.

"I never said" ooh, text book run away excuse.

i said 'plenty' not most, and there are indeed plenty of people who can do things a lot faster then me, and it takes less time then you realise, if you know where to go and what to do.

if you want to continue this completely pointless 'arguement' PM it to me so i can giggle at your futile efforts as i click the delete button

I know you won't because even you know it takes an astounding amount of effort to get your stats maxed in 5 days.
The kind of effort that most people don't have the time to give.

wait am i missing something here?

* Kezzik checks his pants..

no, I have them on... effort? heck no, <click monster, click attack, click loot, repeat til desired PP gained, go to trainer, select skill, clcik buy skill until PP is used up or money runs out, mine gold..>

Lol, be my guest is an expression, not to be taken literally. If your being sarcastic well.... not funny

if I was trying to entertain you I'd want my pay in advance

Oh and what does this mean:

keep reading it until you understand.

are we quite done? I was enjoying my intellectual Discussion with Phin before you came and posted :]

oh, and don't double post

[zhai]

Pure mages, just like bards, will have it rough with game mechs for a while. Still, a plain /roll to determine whether a certain spell was cast successfully or not isn't too hard a compromise, is it? Again, I think it's fair to claim that you have a character that should have a high chance of success but you should never have a 100% rate all the time.

This is not a thread saying everyone should now forget the game mechanics or the dueling ability and simply RP fight. Like I said, if you don't want to, don't do it. I'm trying to talk to and with the people who do.

I've come across players who really enjoy their RP-duels and even though I avoid them (the RP-duels) myself, I don't go about disregarding other players' fun nor their opinions on the subject. Your thread is about how to determine the victor and I addressed that trying not to impose my own preferences.

[bilbous]

I have to say here coming from a background of much pen/paper roll play and some theater training that just making up some stuff about yourself with little regard for anything other than what you want is not good role play. There has to be well defined parameters to guide the play. Things must be kept in context and extremes reigned in. One problem with this game as it stands now is that the "rules" are kind of nebulous. The context is fairly well defined but there are still holes you could drive an ulber-cart through (if you could find a way of controlling the ulber that is.) What is there now that would prevent me from claiming to have a cart pulled by a juvenile ulbernaut and going from town to town trading in consumer coccoon silk garments? Absolutely nothing. Would I make any money selling the emperors new clothes? I might if I roleplayed well enough that I convinced someone to play along. They might even add their new garment to their discription and so validify my claims.

This is how you win a roleplay fight, by being creative enough that your opponent concedes victory. It will not be common though because people are what they are and few will want to admit defeat. There is one other way that I can think of and that is by the judgement of the bystanders. If you cannot convince your opponent to admit defeat then the outcome of the battle cannot be other than what the tale of it becomes. Sadly this means that it will be something of a popularity contest as if the audience is made up of biased people the judgement will be biased. I think that in most cases the judgement ought to be "two lunatics deluded themselves into thinking they had a great battle but all I saw was a lot of gesticulating and a bunch of incomprehesible screaming." I say this because you really should not be able to role play outside the context of the game. What, you say you are a great mage? Well I have to tell you that as it stands magic is pretty weak. Certainly I have not experienced all the magic that is possible in the game and not all magic has been revealed to the "mortals" yet. You should not be able to role play things that will never be in the game.

/me, the greatest mage evarrr hitches his pants summoning the mighty hippogryph and flies off to Valhalla to woo seven Valkeries.

[Under the moon]

Phinehas to n00b dictionary:

No one should play the role of a character that they, the player, do not have the roleplaying skills to support. The game mechanics are there to guide players to having good RP skills....in theory. Problem is a lot of folks don't have enough PP to purchase that theory.

RP fighting has no limits besides what players themselves set. And you (many players) are setting those limits too high.

Roleplaying is not about playing your strengths, it is about overcoming your weaknesses. And it is sad to so so many 'characters' have no weakness. I put an empasis on characters because those types do not exist to my characters. I have run into godmodders and tweakers before. I give them advice on what they are doing wrong and how to adapt to make RPing with them more enjoyable. If that fails, they get the 'little-boy-with-wooden-swords' treatment.

You should always temper your RP to be enjoyable to both yourself and other players. Roleplaying is not a single player event centered on just you.

[Phinehas]

Pure mages, just like bards, will have it rough with game mechs for a while. Still, a plain /roll to determine whether a certain spell was cast successfully or not isn't too hard a compromise, is it? Again, I think it's fair to claim that you have a character that should have a high chance of success but you should never have a 100% rate all the time.

This is not a thread saying everyone should now forget the game mechanics or the dueling ability and simply RP fight. Like I said, if you don't want to, don't do it. I'm trying to talk to and with the people who do.

See, this in my opinion is already an example of lesser RP. When I fight my magic wielding is not made up of "Phinehas casts freeze on Kezzik. Kezzik dodges. Kezzik slices at Phinehas with a dagger." Those are the sorts of things you can roll for. That is boring. The RP fights I've taken part in, if you have good partners, are made up of attacks and counterattacks where each player is honest to himself about his player's abilities and admits when an attack would have hit him and when it wouldn't have. That is true RP. I know Phinehas can't dodge for squat. If he hit you with his stick you wouldn't even notice. On the other hand, his mind is extremely powerful, so I obviously do what I can to play on that. Yet, although there are fairly few who can verify this, I would say that though I consider Phinehas to be an extremely powerful mage, I still fight fair, and am not above losing a fight, however irreparable the damage to his dignity.

I've come across players who really enjoy their RP-duels and even though I avoid them (the RP-duels) myself, I don't go about disregarding other players' fun nor their opinions on the subject. Your thread is about how to determine the victor and I addressed that trying not to impose my own preferences.

Once again, although my thread topic has the word "victor" in it, it's not just about how to win an RP battle. It's about how to protect good RPers, people who know that their characters are mortal and will most likely lose battles now and then, from bad RPers, people who want to be extremely powerful and win everything.

It's better than trying to defend attacks to my character anyway or my RP ability.

Some would morally stay away from such attacks but I guess i should adopt other methods for you and be prepared for them.

~~Datruth

I'm sorry if I've offended you. Let's say I find your particular brand of logic to be somewhat airy. Your statements are simply your opinion and you don't seem to be willing to move on from there. I'm trying to achieve a good system of RP fighting. You say RP fighting doesn't exist and the only way anyone could ever decide a battle is by using the game mechanics. Not extremely helpful.

As for your ability to RP, I've not said you're a bad RPer, I've said that you obviously don't have too much experience if you didn't know that RP fights do, in fact, exist.

This is how you win a roleplay fight, by being creative enough that your opponent concedes victory.

I agree with what you say about convincing your opponent to admit defeat. Yet what I'm talking about AGAIN, is not RP fights between truly good RPers, it's about when a bad one is involved. When you have a poor RPer who comes up and says, "I suck all the magic out of your body, leaving a shell of a man that I quickly destroy with my fireball," the good RPer is left with two responses. A. He can go OOC and talk and explain and rant and convince and appeal to GM's and Devs and God and the world as we know it, which usually sucks all the fun right out of an RP and leaves him with a headache and everyone else frustrated at him "making a big deal out of nothing", or B. he can admit defeat and be frustrated but at least not have a headache or ruined the fun for everyone else around him. I'm looking for a third option, an option that says, "No, you're not that powerful, because..."

It will not be common though because people are what they are and few will want to admit defeat. There is one other way that I can think of and that is by the judgement of the bystanders. If you cannot convince your opponent to admit defeat then the outcome of the battle cannot be other than what the tale of it becomes. Sadly this means that it will be something of a popularity contest as if the audience is made up of biased people the judgement will be biased.

I admit that this is a good idea, to some extent. I would not say that every time someone wants to RP a fight they should gather a crowd to watch and judge, I'm saying that it would be good for possible bystanders to step in at needed times and give objective comments about the feasability of an act. When I almost fought this newish guy yesterday, Peacer came to watch. I didn't end up fighting the guy, but I appreciated Peacer's support, because I had suspicions that this man would have been the type to try and kill me outright, and it was good to have Peacer there to keep things fair and lend some rational advice so it wasn't just the two of us yelling at each other about whether or not one person could or could not do a certain thing...

I think that in most cases the judgement ought to be "two lunatics deluded themselves into thinking they had a great battle but all I saw was a lot of gesticulating and a bunch of incomprehesible screaming." I say this because you really should not be able to role play outside the context of the game. What, you say you are a great mage? Well I have to tell you that as it stands magic is pretty weak. Certainly I have not experienced all the magic that is possible in the game and not all magic has been revealed to the "mortals" yet. You should not be able to role play things that will never be in the game.

I agree that right now magic is fairly weak, but it is not my understanding at all that it's going to be so for the whole extent of the game. So I'm not "RPing things that will never be in the game," as you put it.


And Under: "Phinehas to n00b dictionary:" what did that mean? For the rest though, you're right. Still, being who Phinehas is, he doesn't take to insults well, and things tend to get ugly. Especially when everyone starts prying into why he always winces when he sits and he takes offense at their prying and tells them to get lost and they take offense at that, and pretty soon if they have any backbone they're telling Phinehas that he's going to die a gruesome death behind the tavern and he's saying bring it on... etc. etc. You get the point. That's when fights happen. For the rest, you're completely right, and I know you know that I know that. That was fun to type.

[bilbous]

[When you have a poor RPer who comes up and says, "I suck all the magic out of your body, leaving a shell of a man that I quickly destroy with my fireball," the good RPer is left with two responses. A. He can go OOC and talk and explain and rant and convince and appeal to GM's and Devs and God and the world as we know it, which usually sucks all the fun right out of an RP and leaves him with a headache and everyone else frustrated at him "making a big deal out of nothing", or B. he can admit defeat and be frustrated but at least not have a headache or ruined the fun for everyone else around him. I'm looking for a third option, an option that says, "No, you're not that powerful, because..."

C.  /me falls to the ground motionless and completely charred ....
Some time later after opponent has left.

* bilbous gets up brushes the dirt off his clothes muttering "when will these deluded mages get some sense."

D. /me looks quietly at madman and says kindly "Poor fool lost in dreamland. Should have been more careful playing with powers beyond his grasp." Then you walk away.

C is quick and painless. It assumes familiarity with minor illusion which is not really in context but not too far of a stretch.

D is a little more troublesome because it will likely annoy him but that is his problem.

No-one can force you to accept the impossible. The person who wins is the one with the most realistic play. If both are realistic nobody loses regardless of the outcome.

Personally I hope, but do not expect, that all this in-game typing can someday be relegated to the dust-bin of history otherwise there is no real point to the graphical and game mechanic overhead.