Next Update/version

[Einnol]

Before that max quality gets too low after constant repairs, you would sort of "reshape it" or heat and hammer it again, making it almost brand new, but less powerful since your remake of the sword wouldn't be as good as whoever made its quality. Max quality would return to the sword, but max slash power would drop a little.

Here's a thought.  What if the original crafter of a weapon could 'refurbish' the weapon (for a nominal charge, of course.    ) and restore some of the max quality.  Wouldn't it make sense that the one who made a particular weapon would know the most about it?  This could be a way for a weapon crafter to generate repeat business and have the same customers who purchased weapons come back to have them refurbished.  Of course, over time, the refurbishing of a weapon would be less and less effective until eventually the crafter would have to say that the weapon is just too far gone and it makes more sense to just replace it with a new one and melt the old one down for scrap.

Edit: typo

[Natrina]

 *Natrina's eyebrows arch in surprise.*

 That 2% thing is... wonderful for business. Tumbs up for the devs and the dynamic they are implementing with that.

 And about being a special sword, if it's so special, you'll learn to have more care with it. And remember the reason why people aren't using holy/special people's weapons these days, because people want to preserve relics. Of course this means that your son's grandson won't be able to use the first sword you used when you were a noobie, but oh well, it's better then having the sword last until PlaneShift's world has developed space ships, which I suppose won't happen ever, but you get the idea.

P.S.: The argument of PlaneShift needing less reality is only truly valid by itself when people want to implemnt things that are clearly off-setting.

[Kiraki]

Would that be 2% of the original maximum (100, 98, 96, 94, 92, 90, 88...), or 2% of the current maximum (100, 98, 96.04, 94.1192, 92.236816, 90.39207968, 88.5842380864...)?

Good question... Makes quite a difference!    so if I keep fixing my sword everytime it gets even a small amount of damage i will have a useless weapon in no time... so better to wait until it is almost completetly damaged before fixing it?   

[Datruth]

well that 2% drop thing sucks... alot if it is to work like that u should be able to do something more hard to fully repair ur weapon. something to do with blacksmithing i suppose. reinforce it or sumthin

Because obviously a blacksmith would be able to make a damaged sword 100% brand new..... /endsarcasm

Uhh.... yes he can..

A blacksmith can get a damaged sword and fix it good as new, i don't know where you guys got that 2% thing, it makes no sense.

And by good as new, i'm serious, exactly how it was at inception.

~~Datruth

[bilbous]

Except of course a blacksmith could not repair a magical sword at all without a lot of training in enchantment. Is that what you want? Some degradation of quality seems a reasonable game mechanism to me.

[Karyuu]

Datruth: actually not true at all. Sword parts made of certain metals (manganese-bronze or aluminum for example) don't fare well once broken, and some blades can be extremely difficult to make useable again, let alone good-as-new. Ultimately you may reach a point where the repair of a blade will be far more costly than a new buy, due to the cost of sword parts that cannot be repaired but instead replaced, combined with the labor of the blacksmith.

What makes no sense is the idea that the brand new sword you were given when you're twenty should still be in the same perfect condition ten years later, even with repairs after heavy use. It just doesn't happen.

[Datruth]

Datruth: actually not true at all. Sword parts made of certain metals (manganese-bronze or aluminum for example) don't fare well once broken, and some blades can be extremely difficult to make useable again, let alone good-as-new. Ultimately you may reach a point where the repair of a blade will be far more costly than a new buy, due to the cost of sword parts that cannot be repaired but instead replaced, combined with the labor of the blacksmith.

What makes no sense is the idea that the brand new sword you were given when you're twenty should still be in the same perfect condition ten years later, even with repairs after heavy use. It just doesn't happen.

I agree, make my Silverweave go down 5% in Quality, after 10 years of repairing. (I won't need it by then  )

BUT not after every repair. (That's unrealistic and wrong)

And any new sword nowadays can be replaced back to perfect condition by any blacksmith, older swords hundreds of years old pose a problem because as you mentioned the material used was sometimes brittle.

That problem has been fixed now though and I could buy a current day sword when i'm 20 and have it in perfect condition in 10 years; with ware and repair.

~~Datruth

[Malfini]

If we had some gauntlets we might not even need swords if we have our melee skill high enough.

[Karyuu]

Since you're rather fond of highlighting words:

And any new sword nowadays can be replaced back to perfect condition by any blacksmith, older swords hundreds of years old pose a problem because as you mentioned the material used was sometimes brittle.

We're not playing in a "nowadays" world in-game. Swords, once they required repair, were not repaired to the 100% perfect condition they were in upon their initial making.

*edited to add*

This seems common sense to me, so I'm not sure why you've brought it up - am I missing some part of your argument?

[Malfini]

I found this information from an article written by J. Clements on the Association for Renaissance Martial Arts (ARMA) site.
http://www.thearma.org/essays/damagededge.htm

"When real swords were damaged on their edges, they could, depending upon the severity of the distress, be reground or re-polished to remove the trauma. This would of course require the entire edge of hardened steel be ground down, not just the damaged portion. A blade could only sustain so much of this before the edge’s bevel extended into the softer inner core of sandwiched steel. At this point, an edge of particular sharpness could no longer be maintained."
....
"There is no evidence however that damaged blades would be repaired by “reforging.” Ask a qualified bladesmith about “repairing” heavy nicks on knife or sword and you will learn it’s not an easy task and even borders on the impossible. Once the gouges were ground down, the process of reheating a blade to the degree that it would permit working the metal of the edge back into shape to re-welded the chips would still require it being re-tempered and re-hardened afterwards. Doing this would also entail removing the hilt and the whole thing would need to be re-polished. Given all the work this would require the swordsmith might as well make an entirely new blade instead. Small deformations (ductile damage) to the edge of softer steels can actually be cold reformed by light careful hammering. But on edges of harder steel it re-stoned or refilled.

Distinguished swordsmith Paul Champagne notes that in attempting to polish out and reshape a damaged edge in this way will affect the original shape and thus the feel of the weapon: "After a repair at the sword polishers you might barely recognize the feel of your own blade. It's not just grinding out the nicks; you have to reshape the steel to an edge in the damaged area which means having a very abrupt edge bevel or making the sword thinner to accommodate a more gradual entry into the edge. Just 2 nicks only 1/16" deep directly across from each other means making the blade at least 1/8" narrower in that area.…So much for the initial blade design after a couple of repairs." (Personal correspondence with the author, September, 2004)."

[Gyerfry Stoemsaber]

It's almost the 15 of november. Are you planning to release it now...? How 'bout now? </end silliness here> But seriously. A tribal system? is it like the guild system? Please make it cheaper, I'm one of those people who RPs and explores rather then train and make money.

[peeg]

If I got that tribe thingy right it's for the NPCs, not for players. Something like "NPC guilds".
Tribes can grow depending on their wealth which they'll earn by mining and other crafts. 

[ThomPhoenix]

I agree, make my Silverweave go down 5% in Quality, after 10 years of repairing. Wink (I won't need it by then  Tongue)

BUT not after every repair. (That's unrealistic and wrong)

I'm pretty sure it said 2%

And about the tribes:
Yup, they explore, mine if they find ore and multiply. You can see some screens of a tribe in the screenshots! thread somewhere.

edit:
By the way, it's going to be a good time for the wizards among us 

[zhai]

I am not sure if the current game mechanics concerning combat fit proportionally with the newly added realism of weapon quality. It is true that after repairing a weapon it should lose some of its original quality however, it is not realistic that in order to progress as a fighter or hunter, you need to actually kill thousands of mobs. This is a problem because game mechanics make it necessary for you to actually abuse your weapons in order to progress. In martial arts and most weapon-based disciplines, practice is rarely done in deadly scenarios. Practice weapons or equipment or even imaginary opponents are used. Add to this the price for which the more powerful weapons are sold and it really doesn't make sense.

Fighters will soon face the same situations magicians have to deal with, where training is unrealistically expensive, magic is disappointingly ineffective to kill a mob for 1dp (consumes too much mana, does little damage) even if you are an advanced learner (crystal 20, for insance: an energy arrow will take 3-4% of a rogue's HP) and it's easier to RP their magic. It wouldn't surprise me if more and more often fighters will only RP their fights or their skills instead of actually making use of the game mechanics because "the game isn't ready to play a fighter".

I don't think repair or weapon quality is the problem but the lack of reality in other areas like training and skill progression and economy and it's worth looking into possible solutions to make them equally realistic.

[Nyramael]

so will we ever get a weapon like Aragorn's sword from Lord of the Rings? Amazingly rare and valuable and capable and worthy of being repaired? Just a thought ...

This system will be great for the RP factor of the game - not for the PL power massing aspect

Now people can treasure and take care of their expensive weapons like the silverweave short swords and iron battle axes - instead of using them hunting ulbernauts. In reality you'd expect people to use things like cheap hunting spears and skill. Note if you're skilled enough any old weapon will be good enough in your characters hands so you can reserve the super good weapons for when they are needed like in important RP duels.

I'm also looking forward to seeing modifiers like 'reinforced' 'light' and 'heavy' having an effect on the rate of quality decay and the reduction of quality with each repair - a reinforced weapon/blade should be more durable and resilient to deterioration from repairs than normal blades.

also crystal-steel or diamond blades will be interesting! diamond shouldn't dull - it's practicaly unscratchable. It however shatters quite easily (how a diamond shard or diamond crystals could be worked effectively into a sword is beyond me!). If all of these are taken into account we can have some truly rare weapons and weapons that suite different people. Just looks like a lot of work to put all that info into a database