Whoops

[Suno_Regin]

Rules are meant to be broken.

Actually, they're not, they're meant to keep idiots from creating chaos. But, Gerlon, you're surely not an idiot. You're intelligent, and it was just a simple mistake. 30 day ban, 1 month, is a very long time to me, actually. It seems like scamming someone out of a trade would deserve more of a ban than what he did. He didn't hurt anyone, he just didn't want to spend his entire day fighting rats. Now, a few easier solutions would be to make rats give more PP, or just unban him and let him continue researching. Bans are punishments, discipline, to teach you what to do and what not to do. He knows what he did wrong, so keeping that punishment in place is pointless. Just help him out with his research, let him enjoy the game. He's already learned the lesson, so there's absolutely no point.

You said you had to turn in this project sometime next week, right? Well, that doesn't leave much time. By 30 days he's already screwed. Let him get a little background research in and whatever, don't ban a smart person like him and let some retard run around in game spamming "give me money."

[Karyuu]

The case is closed. Whether someone regrets making the mistake or no longer cares, we have very clear rules and the player already had concerns with this tactic before using it. The ban will not be lessened. This is not the only free fantasy MMORPG in the world, and I would not consider it the holy grail for a research project. Should a list of MMO's in a similar category be needed, I will be more than glad to retrieve one.

[Hadfael]

An interresting concept based on conquest.
let's focus on the differences between a MMO and tabletop game.
In a table top, the party starts with each player starting at the same time with defined ressources, and all of them tries to conquer until he owns the whole playfield. Game Over.
In a MMO the world is persistent and shared (among guilds and maybe the server for unclaimed lands in your case) but players are joining an leaving at anytime. This is why the word "newbie" was created
There is also no definite "game over" otherwise it's useless to join the game near the end, when almost all the world in claimed. If a guild already owns 90% of the ressources, what's the point for a newcomer to join a guild on the losing side.
To prevent that you need to provide each guild different strengths and weaknesses. Each guild/faction must have different limitations so world domination can be endangered at anytime. Thus the group holding a place will always have a reason to stay, at least to protect it.
To please many player you must provide various ways to play (offensive, defensive, construction, destruction, ...)
Over time the game can use passing chars that play until they don't have anything more to do, or provide new challenges for each stage in the evolution of chars. The second is not the easiest thing to do. But it helps to build stable communities.
On how to renew the challenges...I leave it up to you

[Gerlon]

Necromunda does have some persistant aspects to it, after battles based on the outcome of the battle and various dice rolls the player will gain weapons and territories, and each soldier is a distinct individual with stats etc though it has been such a long time since i played i cannot remember much of the rules. The idea of this game is there will still be the guy controlling the army but each soldier will be player controlled, i havn't decided whether to employ a commander system such as in BF2 (basicly an RTS system).

I will explain the faction/guild system briefly.... There are many factions within the game, player may join or leave factions but factions may not be created by players, a faction will have political systems within and will be controlled by a player who rises to the leader position. On the other hand there are also guilds, guilds may be affiliated, allied or against each faction respectively (though an affiliated guild has no control over its relations with other factions or the affiliates of thoes factions), or they may be neutral. A neutral or allied guild can still be at war with any faction however its relations with any 1 faction will not affect its relations with another. An allied guild will recieve various passive and practical bonuses, and an affiliated guild will recieve these boneses but moreso, a neutral guild will recieve no bonuses from faction relations.

Since guilds (and indeed players) are able to change thier affiliations/alliances at the drop of a hat the game world would be politically volotile.

I have mulled over a sort of end game scenario (which will not actually end the game). An objective f you will... If a faction (including its affiliate guilds) takes control of the entire world then the entire faction system is replaced by the guilds that are part of the controlling faction, the game will allow each guild to create a faction (the guildleader will be presented with a faction creation screen) and the game will continue from that point with each faction contrlling the territory that they controlled as a guild just before the endgame scenario, with each new faction being allied with eachother. The Faction that won the game will retain territories that belonged to it but not that belonged to its affiliated guilds, though now it will take a passive bonus from each territory that is controlled by its allied factions... This faction could be seen as the ruling faction (and indeed the game would have started with a ruling faction).

Each faction that had 'lost' the game, would become outlawed... Players/guilds may leave or remain part of them, and they would become pirates of sorts.

Hired guns are completely neutral players, they will be limited to infantry (or non combat) roles and will have no faction relations whatsover. They may fight for any guild or faction at any time for pay.

I have not been able to determine how exaxtly the combat would work, it may be a bad thing (or indeed a good thing) if a guild could just walk into a territory and take it simply because the controlling guildmembers are all asleep?

The rules are a little shaky, and as you can see i am trying to build the game around a rules system instead of vice versa. I think from that description you can see what the strong and weak points of my knowledge on MMOs are.

[Datruth]

Rules are meant to be broken.

Actually, they're not, they're meant to keep idiots from creating chaos. But, Gerlon, you're surely not an idiot. You're intelligent, and it was just a simple mistake. 30 day ban, 1 month, is a very long time to me, actually. It seems like scamming someone out of a trade would deserve more of a ban than what he did. He didn't hurt anyone, he just didn't want to spend his entire day fighting rats. Now, a few easier solutions would be to make rats give more PP, or just unban him and let him continue researching. Bans are punishments, discipline, to teach you what to do and what not to do. He knows what he did wrong, so keeping that punishment in place is pointless. Just help him out with his research, let him enjoy the game. He's already learned the lesson, so there's absolutely no point.

You said you had to turn in this project sometime next week, right? Well, that doesn't leave much time. By 30 days he's already screwed. Let him get a little background research in and whatever, don't ban a smart person like him and let some retard run around in game spamming "give me money."

Finally, someone else that is merciful, thank you suno, atleast someone else in here has a heart.

Oh and you can't reason with the Gm's or Devs, they are obviously not humans with the ability to reason.

They are robots that follow strict rules in a strict world that is never changing and always static.

Kinda like the matrix.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh wait, they actually are people? They are very smart?
 
Wait? They ARN'T ROBOTS!

They have feelings?

Oh My God.

Then what the hell happened here
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seriously, there are alot of mitigating factors here:

1) He didn't do this intentionally

2) He is new

3) He regrets what he's done and will never do it again.

4) He has a research project and can't afford to be banned for 30 days.

5) A 30 day ban is way too severe for this kind of accidental infracture.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


But hey, don't listen to me, go back to those rules, and only break them when they affect you.

Have a nice day. Hope your concience doesn't bother you.

oh and one more thing, Having feelings and mercy towards people doesn't make you more powerfull, but it sure let's you sleep better at night.

~~Datruth

[Hadfael]

1) He didn't do this intentionally
2) He is new
3) He regrets what he's done and will never do it again.
4) He has a research project and can't afford to be banned for 30 days.
5) A 30 day ban is way too severe for this kind of accidental infracture.

1) He accidentaly scripted the whole mining sequence? You underestimate him. As you underestimate the ability of anyone to find excuses when caught with the fingers in jam.
2) How long is someone supposed to cheat before you would consider him old enough?
3) He regrets even more every single day he can't join.
4) I don't see how hard you tried to help him with this post. And if you know his teachers to confirm he has actualy a project due soon, contact them and speak for him. You should have met him ingame and mentioned that being AFK while bot mining is not the best way to study the MMO infrastructure.
5) A 30 day ban was used against other bot miners, it would be unfair to them to punish them and not him.

As a conclusion, I must say that I sleep much better when I know that people playing the game don't have to compete with bots.

[Peacer]

I think he needed the gold for his project, this could have been handled better though, by asking soemone for the money, or get help from the community on this.

when I spoke to him before he got banned he didn't seem like a bad person, although I agree... why not lift the ban till his research is done, then put down the rest of the ban? That would be kinda fair to everyone... he still get's his ban and he get's his research done... and this could be a valuable guy.

Now imagine that he just thought "screw planeshift, I'm researching runescape" what kind of disaster would taht be?

[Datruth]

1) He didn't do this intentionally
2) He is new
3) He regrets what he's done and will never do it again.
4) He has a research project and can't afford to be banned for 30 days.
5) A 30 day ban is way too severe for this kind of accidental infracture.

1) He accidentaly scripted the whole mining sequence? You underestimate him. As you underestimate the ability of anyone to find excuses when caught with the fingers in jam.
2) How long is someone supposed to cheat before you would consider him old enough?
3) He regrets even more every single day he can't join.
4) I don't see how hard you tried to help him with this post. And if you know his teachers to confirm he has actualy a project due soon, contact them and speak for him. You should have met him ingame and mentioned that being AFK while bot mining is not the best way to study the MMO infrastructure.
5) A 30 day ban was used against other bot miners, it would be unfair to them to punish them and not him.

As a conclusion, I must say that I sleep much better when I know that people playing the game don't have to compete with bots.

Why do you assume the worst in people?

1) You assume he lied about everything he said.

2) You assume he did this on purpose and got caught.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What evidence do you have to prove the following?

I'll answer that for you, NONE.

You always believe what people tell you untill they give you a reason not to.

He hasn't lied to us before and he has no record of that.
Even PEACER, a well respected member of Planeshift, says he was a good person and that his ban should be moved to a later date.


If I use your form of logic, everything you just said was a Lie, he didn't use Bot's, you forced him to say that, and All this is is an eleborate scam to screw with the players.

See how that works?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In closing I agree with Peacer, move his banning to a later date, maybe next week, and continue it from that day.

~~Datruth

p.s:

2) How long is someone supposed to cheat before you would consider him old enough?

The whole point of me mentioning he was New was saying that he could have easily made this mistake on accident without knowing the rules.

No one is expected to know all the rules the first week they play.

So i say give people a 2 or 3 week window, after that hold them to Full Liability if they commit an offense.

[Hadfael]

What proof do we have he cheated?
He was caught.
What proof do you have someone was actualy banned and that it's not a conspiracy from GMs to discourage the ones tempted to cheat?
I'll answer that for you: You have NONE.
Rules are as easy to find, to read and to agree with. Easier than it is to download the client. It's even faster to read them than to download, install,  and update.
I don't assume the worst of people, I assume the best.
I assume people are reading about what they download and run on their computer. I assume that werever he downloaded the client, he had to create an account on the website where all the needed infos are linked.

Something you probably missed: He agreed to be dealt with like everyone else. His only request was for help in his project. If you could stop being his advocate when he is able to defend himself, you would read his last post and give constructive ideas and comments.

[ThomPhoenix]

What's going on here?
The guy used a script and got banned, it's as easy as that 

[zorbels]

What's going on here?
The guy used a script and got banned, it's as easy as that 

lol...What's going on here is simple. Datruth is being overly dramatic again. He doesn't seem to understand that if we break the rules for one then we would have to do it for everyone. He doesn't understand that the GM's were just doing their job in keeping planeshift clear of bots, and obviously doesn't appreciate it. He is expressing that we should make exceptions because he doesn't believe the rules Talad has set down for us Gm's to follow are good enough.

ThomPhoenix ... I wish it were easy. 

[iceddragons]

One man drives a car. He has just gotten it and even though he heard the technical rules he does not entirely understand the practical rules. He gets distracted and hits an old man crossing the road. It is proven that it was accidental, and he regrets it.

Another man has planned for a long time to kill an old man, and soon does so. He openly admits the murder and does not regret it.

Both men are killers that deserve to be punished. But do an accident and a long planned murder deserve the same punishment? True the crime is not as great in the situation we face now, but the answer to the question is the same.

[Peacer]

@datruth: It's not because he's new he should get that ban lifted... it's to give him a chance with his project.
However I think It's up to talad whether someone should be able to have modifications in the rules. As where I stand I think hadfael has a point in what he says about asking the teachers first and get a message from them. I really don't think there's any need for depth discussion here...
A suggestion to gerlon, compile your own server, you can get help from #planeshift-build on irc.freenode.net

[Karyuu]

I gave what I felt was a warning in this thread. You've chosen to ignore it and continue arguing publicly over a final decision. If you want to discuss GM decisions and GM actions, you contact us privately and explain how you feel. Arguing and making us seem like monsters here when we are doing our job sure won't help your case.

Botted ==> Banned

Case. Closed. I will be removing posts from now on that continue poking this dead horse. We have rules, and a gamer failed to follow them. There are no "accidents" here.