Old Player, New Character

[Datruth]

I tottally agree.

If you play a new character and abuse your position as such, especially saying so on our Forums, then you should be shamed out of the community.

By abuse your position i mean acceppting large sums of money that you would be able to get within an hour, or by wasting everyone's time around you.

Or by a myriad of other cases.


If you are a veteran and you create a new character, try RPing him with all basic knowledge, don't waste players time and money.

~~Datruth

[bilbous]

I personally have given /30 weapons a time or two when those were 2nd-3rd tier weapons and other magic weapons of merely somewhat better than stock quality. I don't usually give out cash but I have been known to waste 5 minutes or so showing people to the sewers and telling them how to loot etc. I'd hate to think that some of those many millions of trias came from my generosity but it wouldn't suprise me. Also it seems to me that it is only the excessively greedy that have gathered that much cash but this might be a little off. Certainly I hibernated for quite a while but if you already have more cash than you can ever hope to spend and your skills/stats are already maxed why are you still fighting the mobs with the high quality loot to sell for outrageous prices? Shouldn't you start a new character and give other people a chance to loot the good stuff while your new character grows up to take its place at the trough?

Personally I see no problem with a main character subsidizing an alts startup after which it should be left to its own devices. It would be more appropriate if the alt was then beholden to the main in some way though. Certainly if you are subsidizing your alts you should be helping the new players as well. Others may well disagree.

[zanzibar]

If someone who had a million trias was given as much as a thousand trias, then that thousand trias only amounts to one tenth of one percent of the player's fortune.

The money came from a bug a while ago where a quest item sold to NPCs for something like 80 million trias.  There was a money wipe to ballance things out, but many people became rich from the bug even if they didn't exploit it directly.  Given that silverweave shortswords sell for 500k right now, much of that money is obviously still around.

[bilbous]

Shows you what I get for hibernating, I can barely afford to keep training. By the time I get to 40-50k it is time to train light armor again which cost nearly 20k I think last time I trained it. Sword is almost as expensive and then there is axe, dagger the various ways not to mention various tradeskills. Of course I don't have to train everything but it is progressing my character that gives me satisfaction. PP's don't seem to be as much of a problem. Still I can see the day when I will have no more skills to train. It won't be soon but I might go into hibernation again when it happens or even before.

[neko kyouran]

Why would players not do this? Several reasons:

1) To spy on IC things. Very OOC and IMNSHO should be punished.
2) To spy on OOC things. Must be punished severely. This is close to fraud.
3) To remove bad OOC reputation. Instead of being honest and trying to better your reputation, they take the easy way out (which won't work, unless they actually changed their ways, in which case the disguise wouldn't be required).
4) To abuse kindness of other players. Like 1.
5) To gain undeserved OOC attention of whatever sort. Like 2.

6.  There are many people that can't distinguish between characters if the player behind the character is the same and they know that to be such.  As example, Talking with zorbels, she has made a few alts from time to time, to experiment different things, that her main character simply wouldn't do.  When people started to find out that it was simply a different name tag, but the player was the same, then her alt was treated exactly like her main character, as if they were one in the same.  This treatment which was completly wrong for the type of character the alt was, which basically ruined the type of character she was trying to experiment with.  So another reason to play an alt and not tell people and act newish (that is, not know anyone, places in town, NOT game controls, only IC type stuff) is simply becuase you want to play a different role, and don't want to be treated as if you were still playing your main character.

No one has "perfect RP".  Not telling others that it's you only under an alt, takes the problem I stated above out of the equation when playing a different type character.

[bilbous]

Personally I don't care if a player just wants to say "[I'm familiar with how to play and what to do, thank you.]" and just leave it at that.  That allows her his anonymity while acknowledging the helpers offer. It allows the helper to dispense with the uneeded "structural help" if I may call it that, and pass on some useful RP information such as introducing themselves and whoever they know that may be around, gossiping about current events and so on or not as they see fit.

[Suno_Regin]

Actually, I've done this "new player" act, but not in the way described. I don't tell anyone who I am, and I go on like normal, like a newbie, not necessarily asking about the controls, but I ask people things in brackets and whatnot. Seytra, before saying the reasons why we do it, you should actually stop pretending that you know why and actually go do it. We do it because all OOC likes and dislikes are completely removed when you make a new character, and you can roleplay with some person who hates or likes you OOC and they won't know you. You can go on like you don't know how to play (in an intelligent sense), and make more friends and get a fresh start. It isn't about reputation, it's just "restarting" and turning old enemies into new friends. I have so many characters that do this. For example, about 4 of my characters know Farren, but he only knows that I'm Mitaki, and none of the others. By hiding your identity you can roleplay without OOC distractions.

It's hard to explain, really. But Seytra, study up a little more on things.

I was about to post this, but since Bilbous beat me, I might as well reply to that too. While playing as this new character, people often times will try to help me with what they think my problem is, if there is any at all. I just take the help, I don't say I already know, I just go along with it. If you say you do, then people see you as a snobby little bastard. But if you just accept their help, say thanks, and maybe become friends with that person, you've accomplished what you made the new character for.

Another example: In Gunz, I often times make a new character just to get into the newbie channels. Newbies are nice to their own kind, yet act like the older players act like they know it all, while the older players sometimes help the newer players.

...I've done my research. Now you know why I've filled 5 accounts with characters. I always try to create a new start ingame, trying to fix what I did wrong before. Until then, I can't enjoy it without thinking back to times I've screwed up in any little roleplay or I said something to offend someone and they knew who I was outside of my character. Calls for a restart.  I restart, fix that problem by either coincidentally becomming friends with that person, or just not running into them again. All roleplay stays in character though. I never speak in roleplay "Hey I know you, you helped me across the hills as Mitaki" or something, for example. Now that that's out, I forget why I said this. Oh well. *click*

[Karyuu]

Hey, really good post Suno

I too am against the idea that alts should be made known to people you know as a player. It's too easy to superimpose what your experiences were with one character onto another character of the same person. Not that it's impossible to overcome, but if you can avoid running into such problems from the start, why not? Clearly alts should never be abused, yadda yadda. But it's not necessarily wrong to hide your player identity behind a new avatar. Plus you escape some distracting /tells that way too - "Hey, on another char this-and-this happened, so I was wondering if such-and-such with so-and-so and..." Nah. That's on another character who bears no relation to the one you're currently on. If people could be perfectly objective there would be less of a need for omitting things like this. Until then though, it's often a harmless clean start.

(Plus it's easy to refuse "donations" from older players without making your reasons obvious.)

[Seytra]

Suno_Regin, what you are saying is precisely what I was referring to in point 3. You are hiding behind an alt for OOC reasons, and you even said that you are using this mask for actively tricking people into thinking you are someone else OOC-ly. Sorry, but this is not acceptable at all.
I sincerely hope that I have not made friends with a treacerous person like you ingame. You are telling me to do my research, and to sink as low as you obviously did? No, sorry, I am not going to do that. I say that you sould do some research on basic honesty! Looks like my deductions about the reasons were pretty much right.
Yes, this will seem to you like what you are doing is valid ("removing all OOC likes and dislikes"), because I'm definitely going to avoid you from now on. Maybe, however, you manage the little courtesy to avoid me ingame, yes? I've stated what my chars are, so that should be easy enough.

I don't see validity in any of your points. You do something stupid? Well, how about working to fix it, instead of hiding?

If you can start another char just like that, then I am inclined to question the depth and therefore quality of your RP.

Yes, there always are people who are poor RPers, and yes, one can't always perfectly separate IC identities. However, is their RP otherwise good? I doubt it, so why exactly would it matter? But this isn't important. What's important is:

Until then, I can't enjoy it without thinking back to times I've screwed up in any little roleplay or I said something to offend someone and they knew who I was outside of my character.

Decent people try to fix what they did wrong. Decent people even consider apologizing instead of stealth tactics.
Looks like that's too much for you. Possibly you should be thinking much more about where and how and why you screwed up, but hey, that's just my "uninformed" opinion, I guess.

Edit:

For example, about 4 of my characters know Farren, but he only knows that I'm Mitaki, and none of the others. By hiding your identity you can roleplay without OOC distractions.

My reasoning couldn't have been any more precise. What you are calling "OOC distractions" are actually very valid OOC concerns. You are tricking people, there's no amount of romanticizing and glossing over you can do to make this fact disappear. If they don't like you OOC-ly, work to make that go away, or live with it. They will have their reasons. I certainly have mine.
/Edit

I'm appalled that you seem to share this view, Karyuu. If you are talking about GMing, then I do see the point (to avoid GMing requests), but not as general player. Granted, since I don't use alts, I obviously can't have trouble with the /tells that you claim. However, I think that the players with whom I RP (and thus would notify about any hypothetical alt) can handle different characters.
I can't see anything "harmless" in this. In fact, I find this treacherous behavious disgusting and setting a bad example.

[zanzibar]

Suno_Regin, what you are saying is precisely what I was referring to in point 3. You are hiding behind an alt for OOC reasons, and you even said that you are using this mask for actively tricking people into thinking you are someone else OOC-ly. Sorry, but this is not acceptable at all.

Why not?  As long as you aren't using it to take advantage of others, then what's the problem?  Knowing who the player is behind the character is OOC information anyway, so why are you so intent on knowing it?

By the way, your post stinks of troll.  The language you chose is very rude, insulting, and inflamatory.  I highly recomend that you rewrite it keeping in mind that not everyone is going to see things the same as you do.  There's nothing "treacherous" about wanting to have a new character without giving away OOC information about it.

[Karyuu]

When I roleplay in-game I generally try to avoid associating any one person with any one character - the players fade away and all I interact with are the people of Yliakum. Do I have to know whether such-and-such character is played by the person who also owns so-and-so? No. For what reason? Is it being sneaky? Not at all. It's OOC knowledge that I don't need and should never have any use for. Will it change people's expectations of one of my new characters if they know who is playing him or her? Of course. It's not about handling alts, but about an unconscious taint of perceptions. It's unavoidable, and I think that it is indeed harmless to omit such player information for this reason.

A character is an individual in this world, and has no ties to anything but other individuals. A player is there to pull the strings of the character puppet. There is no treachery here.

[Seytra]

Zanzibar, I am going to make an exception from ignoring you for this single post of yours.

Why not?  As long as you aren't using it to take advantage of others, then what's the problem?  Knowing who the player is behind the character is OOC information anyway, so why are you so intent on knowing it?

In order to allow me to avoid players whom I want to avoid. Simple as that. And yes, I do consider tricking people into becoming friends with you OOC-ly, when they in fact dislike you OOC-ly, as taking advantage of others.

By the way, your post stinks of troll.  The language you chose is very rude, insulting, and inflamatory.

You are accusing me of trolling? You, the one who has been trolling more than anyone else I've seen yet? You who made posts with contradicting statements for threads on end, and who used to incite anger and then used unclear formulations in order to wiggle out if the argument started pinning you down? You can't be serious.

I highly recomend that you rewrite it keeping in mind that not everyone is going to see things the same as you do.

You certainly are not in the position to recommend anything to me. In fact, as much as you seem to be trying to convince others that you've changed, I don't buy it, and your plagiatism of a decent RPer isn't good enough. You are playing the good RPer all over the forums, yet you have been advocating too much bad RP in the past for such a change, all out of the sudden, to be believable. Your signature quotes don't make it any better. In fact, I believe Monketh was being sarcastic.

There's nothing "treacherous" about wanting to have a new character without giving away OOC information about it.

It's not about giving OOC info about the character, and you know it. This is your usual attempt to distract from the points. It is solely about telling who is the player behind it, nothing else.

@Karyuu: if I know, or have to assume, that a player is a problem, even just for me, then I certainly want to avoid contact with that player. This definitely is OOC, but would you actually want to play a game of chess with someone you dislike unless you are forced to? So why would you want to play PS with someone you don't like?

[Karyuu]

Because when I roleplay, I try to put OOC conflicts aside. I don't have any particular player I would want to avoid in-game, so perhaps I'm not capable of understanding the full importance this has for you :} Unless I'm suddenly forced to acknowledge the player behind the character, I choose not to. Whatever problems I may have with a player, unless they relate directly to the character s/he is currently using, they become insignificant.

[bilbous]

I can understand both sides of where this topic has gone in respect of know/not knowing the player. On the one hand there is much potential for abuse with hiding the player, some players are unable to change their ways for long. On the other hand if there is no way to leave past mistakes behind there is little room for growth or change. The biggest quandry I find in all this is does the player who has preyed upon the well-meaning in an out of context disruptive manner really understand what he has done wrong and want to change or is he just donning his sheeps clothing. There is a big difference between this and having one evil character and one good. If you are a good player who respects the rules and the other players I don't think it is necessary to know that that evil dude is the same player as this goodie twoshoes. However when the player himself is a "griefer," someone who just enjoys annoying others it is extremely important to know all the disguises he may wear so that he can be avoided. It doesn't matter what mask he wears you know he will be trouble.

It is a hard distinction to make sometimes because people can backslide when they are trying to improve as well as old impressions can cause unjust accusations when they actually are being good.

I think people shoiuld be given the benefit of the doubt until they have erased all doubt.

[Phinehas]

Although I'm definitely a lot more laid back in my approach, I'd have to say I'm definitely on Seytra's side in this one. I've never understood the concept of not telling people who you are... It always seemed sort of low and dishonorable to me. It happens, I live, but I don't like it, and I would never suggest the idea to anyone. Seytra really worded my objections quite nicely. And I also agree with the desire to RP with people you actually like OOC. After all, in a tabletop RPG, you wouldn't really have that much fun if the people you played with were jerks, even if all your characters were friends IC...

Bilbous stated a good opinion as well. It made me realize that I would much prefer someone to ask me to forget their previous bad RP, or whatever than to try and RP with me again with another character. I am a forgiving person, and it's not hard for me to forget past wrongs. I would appreciate the honesty.