It seems I've expressed myself pretty badly.
It almost sounds like you are hiding from other players?
What? Are you kidding me? I just gave examples of good reasons on why I personally like to have my identity unknown. I think enhancement of the role-play is a damn good reason. I don't have to I hide from anyone. I don't have anything I am running away from in planeshift. Why do you assume people need to hide anyway?
I don't assume you
need to hide away. That's (one of) the points. I think that there is
no reason to do so,
unless there is a problem with you (the general "you", not the pointing at "you").
As I said, I don't see how the secrecy can at all enhance your RP, except for a highly limited set of circumstances, which will FAICT not apply to the vast majority of all alts created. As I said, the only circumstance I can see where the OOC knowledge of the player behind the alt would be a problem is if that alt is evil. However, this also only truly applies if
the other RPer isn't yet confident that you indeed manage to fully separate the knowledge of your alts (regardless of your
actual ability).
Further more why is that such an issue ... that is something about your posts that I can't seem to comprehend.
I have stated that in one of my previous posts: I simply do not want to RP with whom I dislike. I don't necessarily have to even dislike them, it may just as well be the case that I feel that my and the other RPer's views of what RP should be differ too greatly for me to enjoy it. I want to avoid them, nothing else, so that I won't find myself having gotten involved with some RP that I then need to quit when finding out the RP style doesn't match, or when I discover the same problems I have had with that player before, under another alt of them. I don't want to waste my (and the other player's) time on something that is doomed to failure, and which will end up frustrating me, and possibly the other RPer. I think that
this, too, is a very good reason, no?
By hiding your alts, you take away this option from me. I thus am forced to endlessly rediscover, for each and every single one of your alts, that our RP styles don't match, or that I dislike the personality of the player behind the alt. This is why I think that this is a very bad thing to do, and more than slightly rude / dishonest.
Anyway I am going to be honest with you. It is hard not to be offended with the way you "talk" to another person. You come across as though you are talking down to them. This bit is rather rude. *Points down* Your opinoin yes, but still rude none the less. If it wasn't meant that way then I would be pleased to be wrong.
And here was thinking PS was attracting better RPers recently.
I am sorry but you have me completely wrong from what I have read in your post and your analysis of my post.
I didn't get you wrong, but I obviously expressed myself badly. I didn't imply that you were a bad RPer. Yes, initially I thought that use of hidden alts would be something that is done only by those whom I regard as bad RPer. It is also true that I still think that several of those who also use hidden alts
are bad RPers, and that there still is a likelyhood of finding both in one player. It furthermore is a fact that this sort of sneakiness previously used to be exclusive to cheaters and the like.
But it is obvious that I have to acknowledge that good RPers have come to use hidden alts as well. And I don't regard
you as bad RPer. Suno Reign and Zanzibar, amongst others, though, I
do regard as bad RPers, but I think that I have expressed that in my other posts already.
However, that quote of mine wasn't even supposed to imply that anyone was a bad RPer. In fact, it would, if anything, imply that many of you are decent RPers at least:
Your post has, to my disappointment, made it clear to me that there are many players, not only bad RPers, who are using secret alts. My observation recently was that the number of characters wich are RPd well has increased. Before reading yout post, I had assumed that PS was, in fact, attracting more decent RPers and thus less bad / non RPers than it used to, because the number of new characters had remained the same, but a higher percentage of them seemed to be played by at least decent RPers. Since your post obviates that most of these new characters are in fact alts of long-term players of PS, the conclusion therefore is that the ratio of
actually new RPers to bad / non-RPers PS attracts has remained the same, or even gotten worse.
BTW, you have been with PS for too long for "recently attracting" to reven remotely apply to you, so even if I were to assert that every single new player was a dismally bad RPer (which I don't), that couldn't possibly extend to you.
Your post seems to have a defensive tone to it and it is something I am not understanding? I have read your long replies and have noted what your point of view is. This last post was nothing more than a re-run of your others in this thread. I have said my peace with my first post and don't think there is more at this time that I need to add.
Of course it has. Simply because I
am defending my points. I,too, had made them previously, and still am convinced that they are valid, so all that's left is defending them. The more or less only addition was that I said how my points apply to your points, and to express my disappointment on what seems to have become the status quo in PS, and my asking all of you who use hidden alts to not "go along with it" when I, or some other RPer, offer to explain some of the concepts of RP or PS. You know them already, and going along with it is just wasting time, yours and mine. And if you waste my time in order to uphold a masquerade that I think shouldn't be allowed, then that is, obviously, even worse.
[Edit] I missed something I would like to address with you Seytra. I am in no way. shape, or form am I the best role-player around. I have my down falls. But I am NOT I repeat NOT having a "lack of establishing confidence in your IC / OOC separating ability" as you put it. Actually I am vey confident when it comes to playing different characters and separating IC/OOC and RL issue's/Game issues. I have learned how to be confident with this over the last year and a half in planeshift. With trial and error of course. You shouldn't be so quick to judge those in which you know nothing about and one post isn't grounds for you to pick apart who I am or question how I role-play, or imply that I have troubles with role-playing.
I don't imply that you have trobles with RPing. In fact, that is precisely what I was trying to say: you can be the best RPer in all of PS, and
still another player may very well distrust your RP abilities.
The problem is simply that the other player hasn't RPd with you much yet, and thus doesn't yet have experience to judge you by. Therefore, that player may not be certain that you can separate IC and OOC, or the IC realities of two of your alts
even if you can.
To counter this, there are two options:
1) establish that confidence
2) hide all your alts
The first takes time, obviously. It is, however, the way that will be best in the long run, because by openly standing by your alts, you already state that you're not trying to hide, and thus it is less likely that you are hiding anything else (It really is the reasoning behind "Who lies once, will not be believed, etc.").
The upside is that this time, once spent, automatically applies to all of your alts, present or future.
Thes second doesn't take time: by pretending to be a new player, the other won't question whether or not you can keep IC from other IC.
However, and I think that is overlooked most of the time, the other player will still need to build up confidence in your ability to separate IC from OOC, just like in 1). And this will have to happen for every single alt of yours, so it is in fact wasting time to the other players.
The "lack of establishing confidence in your IC / OOC separating ability"
solely refers to how other players percieve you, it does in no way make assumptions on your actual qualities as RPer. What I am trying to convey is simply that just because you are a good RPer, others won't magically know that. Therefore, they cannot know that something that you said fully IC-ly, was, in fact, fully IC. And this is what makes it possible that a good RPer can get OOC troubles even though they were perfeclty IC.
If you trash-talk them IC-ly, how can they know that it is merely your char, and that you, as player, don't think that way? They cannot, and since the ratio of good RPers to that of bad RPers / griefers is small, they in fact must assume you are an OOC jerk. Only once they know that you are a good RPer they can cease doubting you.
That is what I was referring to as "establishing confidence / trust".
I won't be wasting my time explaining RP or anything that might be found in the manual / ingame help / or website / forums anymore,
Thank goodness because that would be one looooooooong post that I wouldn't waste my time reading. Who says you need to explain it anyway? I know I am not asking, and I don't think the thread is named "help us Seytra we need you to tell us how to role-play." So no worries don't stress about it.
I was referring to ingame. I am sure that you have done the very same to a lot of new players (or hidden alts) as well. When you think that that new player has the potential to become a good RPer, then you (or at least
I, anyway) offer to give them a bit of startup information, without necessarily insisting on the "RTFM" routine, so that they run less risk of being dragged down by bad RPers or being dismissed as clueless by other RPers.
With, however, knowing that the vast majority of those promising "players" are nothing more than alts, I can't help but feel my time deliberately getting wasted, and thus I won't do that anymore. Yes,
this is an accusation to those using hidden alts.
First of what exactly is the problem now? Sure there are reasons to tell other people. Does that mean it is mandatory? No. Does it even mean it should be done? No, becuase there are also many reasons already mentioned not to tell everyone about your other characters.
I think that those reasons apply only to the vast minority of all cases, and therefore are in a stark contrast to the obviously widespread use of hidden alts.
Does this automaticly mean someone is a scammer that is hiding on another alt or something? No and it's rather rude to imply that has to be the reason specially when so many other reasons have already been posted.
No. I initially thought so, as I said above, but I don't anymore.
One character has nothing to do with the other. That the character is played by the same player has nothing to do with you unless you suspect deliberate OOC use of information although I don't see many scenario's where this would really be worth the trouble. If a player doesn't decide to tell you their alts and that way you lose contact or feel left out this is unfortunate but that is the players choice and that players right.
The loss of contact was more Phinehas' concern (though I think that it is valid), and I don't really feel left out. On the contrary, as I stated, I simply want to avoid the
players with whom I know I wouldn't have fun RPing. I don't see what there is so hard to get about that, neither do I see why that wish would be so immensely incomprehensible.
I further admit that I would be severely disappointed if I were to learn that someone with whom I had RP'd for a long time was in fact a mere alt of someone else with whom I have RP'd for a long term as well, simply because of the obvious lack of honesty (or lack of trust in my RP abilities) that this shows. It is obvious that most people don't see anything wrong with that. It also is quite possible that I am biased by the bad experiences with hidden alts that I have had (being, obviously, on the receiving end of it's negative results, just as Phinehas).
So, the only thing left for me to do is to concede defeat. I'm obviously more or less alone with my views, and even Zorbels who stated to initially have felt the same has since long come to be part of what I still feel is the problem, instead of the solution. I still think it's wrong, and will ultimately hurt PS, but if even Karyuu supports this way of conduct, then it's obvious that I'll have to put up with it. So... congratulations. At least now I know what RP in PS has become. One less illusion is a good thing, after all, no?
