Author Topic: Killsteal Concept  (Read 4950 times)

zanzibar

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2006, 08:53:06 pm »
So you would help kill, but unless you explicitly grouped with them... no experience or loot.


That... changes things.  People only attack mobs to get loot and experience, so I don't see how this would solve anything.
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Kalika

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2006, 09:03:04 pm »
2.@Kalika:  If it's taking you forever to kill a rogue, and the rogue is so tough that you can't kill it without spending a considerable amount of time and energy on healing, then maybe you shouldn't be attacking the rogue.  Instead, you should attack things at the level of your character and let the stronger character attack the stronger mobs.

i understand that perfectly...but think of this...you have fought the rogue down to 30 percent of his health and you are at 25 percent, you start to walk around the rogue so you can cast life infusion maybe about twice, and im saying WALK AROUND as in you are still within an attack zone of the target, not running away...my problem however, are those that see that the rogue is at 30 percent and take advantage of your healing time...im not saying that you should be given priority if your health is at 10 percent and the rogue is at 80...but that if you just need the few boosts of magic it is unfair that another player should come along adn steal it...its a little inconsiderate of the other person

edit-@ Eldoth, sorry if i deviated from your original topic...it wasnt my intention
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 09:05:31 pm by Kalika »

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eldoth_terevan

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2006, 09:17:58 pm »
Quote
That... changes things.  People only attack mobs to get loot and experience, so I don't see how this would solve anything.

EXACTLY, Zanzibar! That is the whole point! Jeesh. Think about it. S'okay Kalika, you sweetie... all is good.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 09:55:24 pm by eldoth_terevan »

zanzibar

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2006, 09:27:29 pm »
2.@Kalika:  If it's taking you forever to kill a rogue, and the rogue is so tough that you can't kill it without spending a considerable amount of time and energy on healing, then maybe you shouldn't be attacking the rogue.  Instead, you should attack things at the level of your character and let the stronger character attack the stronger mobs.

i understand that perfectly...but think of this...you have fought the rogue down to 30 percent of his health and you are at 25 percent, you start to walk around the rogue so you can cast life infusion maybe about twice, and im saying WALK AROUND as in you are still within an attack zone of the target, not running away...my problem however, are those that see that the rogue is at 30 percent and take advantage of your healing time...im not saying that you should be given priority if your health is at 10 percent and the rogue is at 80...but that if you just need the few boosts of magic it is unfair that another player should come along adn steal it...its a little inconsiderate of the other person

edit-@ Eldoth, sorry if i deviated from your original topic...it wasnt my intention



So you want to run away from the fight so you can have a chance to heal?  You're still running away from it, and therefore I see no reason why someone else shouldn't be allowed to step in.
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Kalika

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2006, 11:41:40 pm »
who said anything about running? i thought i specifically siad not running...i said youre standing right NEXT to him...as in less than a fot away...attacking distance...

oi

nevermind...

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zanzibar

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2006, 12:37:24 am »
who said anything about running? i thought i specifically siad not running...i said youre standing right NEXT to him...as in less than a fot away...attacking distance...

oi

nevermind...


Oh.  If you're able to survive playing around like that, why not just kill him?
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Kalika

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2006, 12:51:44 am »
becase its nice to have that extra bit of health...if you had read what i wrote i said "heal maybe once or twice" its no fun to die when youre trget is at 3 percent helath left...

and im not saying its WRONG

im saying that it is awfully inconsiderate of others to take the kill when the npc is at such a ow health (example 30 percent when you are at 25 percent..therefore the spellcasting)

i say stand clsoe to the rogue because it doesnt take an insanely long time to heal...its jsut that there is those few seconds that ive had many players run up and kil a rogue that i had been trying to kill..and i was sooo close...but i stopped to cast a spell (which in all honesty what good are they for if you cant use them?) and lost what i think im jsutified in calling "my kill"

but anywho i guess some of us are lucky to not have experienced such things and can then consider people like me whiny...whatev


 :flowers:

Edit: im done spamming...sorrys, ive made my point adn regardless of whether anyone understands...its pointless and irritating to debate it further, i dont like to post things for no reason, especially when the topic starter has already expressed his concerns... anwyho peace
« Last Edit: November 04, 2006, 01:09:00 am by Kalika »

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zanzibar

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2006, 01:05:15 am »
... In combat, don't you lose more health than you gain by taking the time to cast a heal spell?  I might gain 5% of my HP back by casting life infusion.... but I'll lose way more than 5% of my health in the time it takes me to cast it.
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bilbous

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2006, 01:10:13 am »
I would imagine it depends on you skill in your armor and the way, crystal is it? I have very good light armor training and rogues barely touch me.

zorbels

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2006, 01:19:10 am »
Quote from: zanzibar
Oh.  If you're able to survive playing around like that, why not just kill him?

Maybe she likes to toy with the rogue? I used to do that quite abit when i didn't have the strength to take on bigger prey. In my eyes, in character I was being tactful and wearing down the creature so that I could eventually take him down. That isn't running away. If I do the work, I think it is my right to have the kill.
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Kalika

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2006, 01:23:31 am »
Quote from: zanzibar
Oh.  If you're able to survive playing around like that, why not just kill him?

Maybe she likes to toy with the rogue? I used to do that quite abit when i didn't have the strength to take on bigger prey. In my eyes, in character I was being tactful and wearing down the creature so that I could eventually take him down. That isn't running away. If I do the work, I think it is my right to have the kill.

YES this is what im talking about...thank youse
(and fyi i dont do this currently..but i see it happen adn it used ot happen to me...you could at least wait til the person dies or the rogue respawns...its jsut corteous)

'she lies with her arms flung out as if to embrace the whole hyancinth-scented, watermelon-colored world.'

zanzibar

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2006, 02:02:55 am »
Quote from: zanzibar
Oh.  If you're able to survive playing around like that, why not just kill him?

Maybe she likes to toy with the rogue? I used to do that quite abit when i didn't have the strength to take on bigger prey. In my eyes, in character I was being tactful and wearing down the creature so that I could eventually take him down. That isn't running away. If I do the work, I think it is my right to have the kill.



If you're playing with it... then why get upset if someone else kills it?  They're a scarce resource, afterall.
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Immaturity is FTW.

The Shadow Nose

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2006, 02:22:39 am »
One idea that comes to mind for me is an option for a person to 'watch' other people battle and then get some secondhand experience from that. Essentially learning by examining how other people engage in combat without having to do battle yourself. The player actually doing battle would not lose anything at all, they would get the exact same amount of XP as if they had fought alone. But the person watching would get a little XP by watching the battle (maybe like 1/10th of the normal XP value).

It would basically be like a person watching life-action footage of combat or spellcasting or whatever. You can learn from that to provide the experience to train your own skills later.

Some people may say that this would encourage powerleveling... or at the very least a bunch of people parking next to a high-level monsters spawn point and then watching other people fight it. Which actually could provide a little bit of atmosphere... all those seats (or stairs or whatever) in the Arena might actually have people in them if there was a reason for people to sit there. Let people sit back, watch the combat, and get a little experience for free. People could chat and roleplay while watching the fights if those fights could actually be exciting.

Plus, letting people get experience through watching could help make healers a bit more practical in the game. Right now, I don't think a dedicated healer can get any experience unless they actually help kill a monster or mine ore or whatever. If a healer assists a fighter by healing them. They could watch the combat and get experiece from that. It shouldn't hurt the fighter in any way.



Another problem is, that the whole concept of actual experience is really getting weird in games like this. Its almost treating experience like a resource that you can only get by killing animals. If instead experience was rewarded for each action in battle (such as each strike of the sword) then kill stealing would not really effect people as much. If you bring a monster down to 3% and somebody swoops in and kills it, you should have already gotten all the experience from that previous 97%. He might get the XP from that 3%... but who cares? You already got your XP and they can't steal that from you.

There is already the code that lets people gain practice points for each combat action (like attacking with swords or axes or melee combat) a little change in the code should be able to let people get their experience points from actions instead of just from killing monsters.

So, make it practically impossible for a person to steal experience from a person who worked hard to get it... then create a way for people to gain experience by just watching the combat. Killstealing would not only be difficult to pull off, but it would be pretty unecessary.

As for the loot... eh not sure how to deal with that.

zorbels

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2006, 02:59:18 am »
Quote from: zanzibar
If you're playing with it... then why get upset if someone else kills it?  They're a scarce resource, afterall.

Work with me zanzibar *zorbels points to her sentence* not playing with it ......
 
"in character I was being tactful and wearing down the creature so that I could eventually take him down"

Meaning taking on bigger prey and having to take the time to do it in a tactful way. If I spend an hour because I am a weak character chasing around a rogue hitting it with my magic and giving it my all in combat it is only fair that I should receive the reward of the pp, loot and experience.

These races in planeshift are not uncivilised or in a depression so there is no excuse for bad manners [even in roleplay, if a person wants to play a robber fine take a kill but don't stand there and keep taking it .. that is just bad roleplay]. There is plenty of game to hunt. I don't understand where you get the info that they are a scarce resource. I even would go as far as to say the gaurds could and might possibly arrest a person for stealing someone elses game that they were hunting [If your roleplaying]. The time it takes for my character to weaken this creature so I could kill it would be enough for me to be upset if someone came along and killed it just because and kept doing it. I don't understand why that isn't clear to you?
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zanzibar

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Re: Killsteal Concept
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2006, 04:26:19 am »
I know that it's annoying, and I know why it bothers you, I just think that if you want to claim absolute ownership over a particular mob you're going to have to make a stronger case.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.