Unwritten Rules

[Lanarel]

To repair weapons, you must have something to repair. It's not a bottomless well of resources that you can tap over and over, unlike fighting and mining (most important point). Therefore if you go AFK while your character is working on a single weapon, it's no big deal, and in such a case a /tell away message may be all you need for the curious

I understand that me getting banned for this is unlikely, just wanted to add to the arguments against an auto-kick after 5 minutes. Besides, I was bored while repairing

And, of course, nothing prevents you from having a conversation while you repair. Is moving around while repairing really a bug? I never thought of it that way but I guess it is possible. You cannot repair while you are sitting down which seems incongruous.

The problem with having a conversation at the spot where I was, is that there was no-one to talk to. Walking while repairing may or may not be a unintended, being able to run while doing this is though.

To get a bit more on-topic, I agree that people should be punished for using scripts, or gaining from letting the game mechanics work for them (such as standing at a respawning NPC). Some remarks though:
- be aware that some of the signs of someone doing this may also be possible by someone temporarily being distracted doing something boring. For example /repair-ing. Or the example Zanzibar gave of training armor or swords on an npc that does not harm you much. Although I agree that you should not do this unattended, or blocking the npc for others for a long time anyway, it may happen that you get distracted (e.g., are reading forums in another window) and miss a tell in one of the other tabs or a 5 second red warning message by a GM in a few minutes of not looking. In such cases, a punishement as given here at least seems a bit severe. Which brings me to the following.
- I do not think deleting the inventory is a just punishment, as this will be a different loss for someone with an almost empty one (new player, or someone using alts/guild for storage) or someone carrying everything he collected (hopefully in a correct way) during a year (swords, (rare) glyphs, ...).

[Idoru]

I personally think that it is a good idea to strip the inventory, although to me a ban would be a bigger incentive to not cheat. Saying that, most people who cheat (I assume) are not in the game to meet people and have a good time chatting/RPing. They are there to make themselves really strong and have good equipment, (which is why stripping the inventory is effective) of course once they have achieved their aims they will most likey get bored and stop playing PS and go elsewhere.

[Anfa]

There is also the question of someone suddenly having to "run" to answer the phone or to answer the door. In a case like this, they might not have time to move their character to another location or actually leave the game since they are only going to be a "few" minutes. Should the phone conversation take a little longer or they are at the door for a bit, than their character will be unintentionally unattended for longer than the five minutes allowed by a GM testing to see if they are botting. A stripped inventory and a ban because of it does seem a little harsh.
If the inventory is stripped, and it is found that the person was indeed, only distracted away from the computer, is it possible to restore all that might have been lost?

[Araye]

I am NOT claiming my guild member was not taking advantage of the mechanics.  I really don't know and probably was.

My point was that he didn't know it was a rule or considered cheating (even if it is obvious to most).

 - Karyuu has addressed this issue

And that the punishment for an unwritten rule was harse, simply because it was unwritten.

As Anfa has just stated, "what if..."  I think she makes a very valid concern.  That is why I suggested a GM kick the person off and send a warning in an email.  Or maybe there could be a message displayed to the potential offender when s/he relogged in.  Instead of, "there are udpates available" it could say, "you were kicked off by a GM, please send a petition to explain why you were XXXX".  Something like that.  And the kick would only be for "unwritten" rules.  Blatant violations of rules should be dealt with according to their published punishments.  There is no excuse then.

I would also like a review of the evidence.  So that the accused atleast has an opportunity to explain or show proof to the contrary.  I'm not saying "innocent until proven guilty", but rather a method for the accused to state their side before the punishment is enforced.  I know GMs have better things to do than hold court, but this seems fair as a GM could make a mistake.

I also think that 6 minutes to respond is pushing it.  An "extended period of time" needs to be defined, imho.

I like Karyuu's idea of an AFK function that can be visible to others.  It could be as simple as changing the font text color.

In the initial example though, I don't believe my guild member would have been marked away - so his punishment was just (if it had been a known, published rule, which it is now).

Araye

[AryHann]

I like the idea of signalling AFK with the change of text color. That would be less intrusive and quite "RPG".

* AryHann still dreams of a system of name recognition based on the knowledge of the characters with each other.

[zhai]

I like Karyuu's idea of an AFK function that can be visible to others.  It could be as simple as changing the font text color.

How about a big "Zzzzzz" next to their name tags and drool coming out their mouth?

[Under the moon]

This is just plain silly. Everyone is so concerned about cheaters and 'getting ahead' of other players. What is the big problem?

Is them getting higher stats while they do something more important going to change how you play? If it is, then you should tell everyone to stop leveling right now so as not to interupt your little world. I don't understand what the issue is here.

Are players who do this getting to the end of the game faster? If that is what they think, then let them get to the end, then leave.

Are they going ooc? Hell, the entire concept of spawning is ooc, so that is shot right out the window. And since whan are you required to talk to anyone to play this game?

So, what are you taking from other players by AFK botting? Nothing.

What special rewards are you getting? None.

What secrets of the game are you unlocking? Zero.

How much RL time are you saving? Endless hours.

How bad are you tieing up the server? If that question even needs to be asked, you need a new server.

How much fun are you missing out on? Wait...camping is fun?

How much roleplaying (you know, the main aspect of the game) are you missing out on? Actaully, it adds to your time, as you don't have to waste those hours killing things when you are there.

Would I do this 'botting'? Absolutly. That is until combat has any other purpose than...well combat. And perhaps is interesting to do in the least.

Would I get banned for it? If you could catch me, which is very unlikely, yes.

One last question. Can you bot roleplaying? No.

However, I do like the idea of the AFK (call it meditating, daydreaming, unresponsive, etc) symbol for RP. There have been many times I have tried to talk to someone who ten minutes later gave a tell saying they had to leave for a bit. I have done it myself.

As for GM rules, if they are not written in public view, they do not exist. The thing that should have been done to that player was to give them a warning in tell, as it WAS an unknown rule, then watch for them next time they come online.

@AryHann: Working on it.

[Idoru]

How bad are you tieing up the server? If that question even needs to be asked, you need a new server.

Donate thousands of pounds to the PS project and then you can have the grounds to start to complain about the quality of the server.

[Karyuu]

Moon: I was hoping you'd be a better role model for the community. Your post is most disappointing.

[Under the moon]

What parts, exactly, are disappointing or even untrue?

People do this to make their characters into that which they want to play. There is no getting ahead. I have seen people say that this will give people advantages over others. How is that any differant in the least little way from someone who sits just as motionless killing the same creatures? They both have the advantage over people who do not do the same. Leveling is leveling, no matter how you do it. What is the difference if you sit there staring at your character killing the same creature over and over and trying to make some sort of half baked RP as to why she is doing it, or parking your character next to that same mob and going off to do something else, while RPing that your character is in dedicated training, or whatever half baked RP you would be doing with your hand on the mouse?

Would it be ooc for me to park next to an agressive mob, then do an /away message that says "I am in dedicated training, and my master has ordered me to talk to no one. Be on your way." Or have a shortcut set up for the same thing. I have tried to talk to Slash-n-dashers before, and get very little response. Most of the time none.  No one roleplays around mobs. It is all about training, and getting stronger. That is the lowest form of 'RP'.

My post may be disappointing to you, but it is disappointed to me. The entire combat and training system is based, and would fit nicely in a single player game, as that is what it is. The rules support that. The game supports that. The tasks (quests) support that. The code supports that.

Whan it comes to roleplay, I do nothing but support and promote it. When it comes to newcomers, I guide the ones that wish to be guided, and try to include as many as I can in my RPs. When it comes to older players, I do not take their side just because they have been here longer. I listen to every side before I come to a conclusion. When it comes to the Settings, I push the boundries, but never cross them, and remain true to what -could- happen, if not what would or did.

If you judge me to be a bad role model by making my opinion known in a subject as lame as out of character, AFK camping of redundantly spawing creatures that are not behaving according to the settings in the first place, then so be it. If everyone in the game roleplayed their hardest while online, then camped AFK and ooc, by god, that would be a fine day.

[steuben]

I like Karyuu's idea of an AFK function that can be visible to others.  It could be as simple as changing the font text color.

How about a big "Zzzzzz" next to their name tags and drool coming out their mouth?

either that a little inflating/deflating bubble like in some anime.

[zanzibar]

I agree with Under the moon in one way and I disagree with him in another.


I think that levelling up should be easy.  I think that a restriction should be made on it that slows down the process, but I don't enjoy grinding more than anyone else.  If we could have a system that allowed people to level up over time, but grinding didn't help you any, and you didn't have to put a lot of real life time into training in order to level up, then I think that would  ideal.

I'll disagree with him on this though:  He said that people grind in order to RP the characters they want to play as.  This is outside of the settings and therefore IMO bad roleplaying.  We don't enter the game as powerful mages or warriors.  It is dictated by the settings that we enter the game as mere peasants and slowly over time we grow in skill and fame.

[zorbels]

You guys didn't read my comment on an AFK-mode too carefully. I mentioned an AFK mode that would display some sort of icon by your character's name, and would not allow you to do anything but have access to the chat. No fighting, no repair, mining, etc. Plus it would not be automatic, but manual. As I said, I have practice with an automatic boot from the server every time I log in, and it's beyond aggravating. Therefore if you know that you are going to be gone for a few minutes, it shouldn't be a huge effort to either type /away, or click on a shortcut for it, even if your pull away is urgent.

O.o Ohhhhh, I like this idea very much!

For the life of me I can't undersand why people want the right to stand at an NPC while AFK and bot. I mean really in the long run what does it accomplish? Your character is tough? Big whop! You didn't earn it.

[zanzibar]

O.o Ohhhhh, I like this idea very much!

For the life of me I can't undersand why people want the right to stand at an NPC while AFK and bot. I mean really in the long run what does it accomplish? Your character is tough? Big whop! You didn't earn it.

When I was working on the levels of light armour above 45, I found that it took over 10 minutes to level up just from camping infront of a rat in full defensive.  Level 50 took over 15 minutes I think.  For some of those last levels, I got up from the computer and came back later.  I don't feel particularly ashamed.  Watching a screen for 15 minutes without doing much of anything else isn't particularly fun.  But that's why people do it.

[Monketh]

Must every character in the world start out as a lowly peasant?  What about sons/daughters of nobles/magicians/etc?
Do you want to RP everything up to the point of the grizzled old man so you can play the grizzled old man?
To me, that sounds foolish.