Author Topic: Unwritten Rules  (Read 3401 times)

zanzibar

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Re: Unwritten Rules
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2006, 10:36:12 pm »
Must every character in the world start out as a lowly peasant?  What about sons/daughters of nobles/magicians/etc?
Do you want to RP everything up to the point of the grizzled old man so you can play the grizzled old man?
To me, that sounds foolish.


I think that such characters add colour to the game.  But I also think that the settings were writen in such a way that they prescribe a certain character that people are intended to start off as.  Talad himself has said that he enjoys the creative ways people make characters, and I think it would be a loss if we didn't have the grizzled old men and the dark strangers with mysterious pasts.  But such characters are acting outside of the settings.
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Under the moon

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Re: Unwritten Rules
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2006, 10:43:37 pm »
Monketh: As the game is now, playing by the rules in place, yes. As it should be, no. I agree, it is foolish. The settings do say you start out as a peasant. I say the settings are wrong in this aspect, and need to be changed. It robs from the diversity of the game. You CAN NOT play an old, grumpy dwarf who spits a lot under the current settings.

Er...but now we are going afar from the subject.

bilbous

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Re: Unwritten Rules
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2006, 10:57:47 pm »

When I was working on the levels of light armour above 45, I found that it took over 10 minutes to level up just from camping infront of a rat in full defensive.  Level 50 took over 15 minutes I think.  For some of those last levels, I got up from the computer and came back later.  I don't feel particularly ashamed.  Watching a screen for 15 minutes without doing much of anything else isn't particularly fun.  But that's why people do it.

I'm just wondering why a you should be able to get any training in the higher levels of light armor from a low level monster such as a rat. I don't doubt it happens, I just wonder why it is possible. Personally I trained my light armor in the process of training my other combat skills, by fighting mobs. I trained your way a few times in the mid levels, mostly with a dropless merc in the arena, but found it was too boring and not particularly rewarding either. It takes longer to to train but it is more in character.

zorbels

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Re: Unwritten Rules
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2006, 11:05:25 pm »
I think the idea is a good one to not have everyone the same when they first start out. It seems to be forgotten though that we aren't the same. We have choices on what we pick as our trades and skills. Depending on what you choose is what your out come for skills being higher or lower will be after character creation. 

I think for the most part people are trying to push for things this game just isn't ready for yet. Or thinking that the way it is now is how it will stay. They are still working on the basic's and still don't even have all of the characters meshes done yet. I think keeping in mind that the game will have drastic changes in the future and also drastic changes in the way systems work should be a given. What we know now my not even exist in the future.
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The Shadow Nose

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Re: Unwritten Rules
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2006, 11:59:52 pm »
Personally, I think (and I think that everyone agrees to a degree) that the leveling system is pretty broken. The basic problem to me seems to be the concept of XP in the game.


Practice points are gained by practicing the skill in questions, they allow people to get stonger in that particular skill.
XP is gained by killing monsters, it is used to 'buy' theoretical knowlege from NPC trainers.


XP in essence is simply the limiting factor that is designed to limit the speed at which people get stronger. Call it the growth potential. This is like saying that you cannot become a master swordsman in 3 days, even if you practice constantly for 72 hours straight. Eventually something runs out and you cannot gain skill from that practice anymore. (in RL it would be that your collapse from exaustion, or your mental willpower runs out, you lose interest, or your brain 'fries' from the constant learning)

The problem is that in PS you get a virtually unlimited amount of XP from killing monsters or doing some other repetable activity.

To put this in an RL example... suppose you wanted to be a master swordsman. You need to practice to do this but it takes a lot of practice and you can't do it all in one go because you will 'burn out' and have to stop to rest eventually. But if you got a 'magic treadmill' that costs you absolutly nothing to maintain or operate, but while you run on it it can drain away all the fatigue, satisfy all hunger, and get you all set to get practicing again.

The result, a person with a 'magic treadmill that eliminates all fatigue' could practice swordplay for hours, run on his treadmill to remove his fatigue, and then quickly go back to practicing again. If he works had enough, he could probably cram in more practice into 3 days than many people can work into 3 weeks. You can get almost anything done if you can get rid of the need to eat, drink, play, and socialise.


Essentially, getting XP from killing monsters (while practice points are gained from performing actions) is like a treadmill that you use to eliminate all need to do anything other than practice. Its very boring and pretty unrealistic.

Anyway, possible sollutions to fix the leveling system.

1. limit the amount of XP you can 'store up' at a time so that once you save up an amount (like 100 XP or so) you simply don't gain any more until you spend that on something. This would discourage spawn camping for long periods of time... but would still be a pain if the XP cost to level skills remained so insanely high.

2. create an item that gives a set amount of XP for its consumption (such as a potion, a fruit, or a book that vanishes once read). If it can be bought for tria than it could very well be gained by people with money-making skills instead of monster-killing skills. If it can be mixed through a potion-making skill then it will encourage the learning of that skill and the aquisitian of the items used to make it. If it can be a reward given out for Good Roleplay then it could help those who would rather Roleplay than sit around killing monsters. It would turn XP from a 'free' item you gain by camping into a comodity with value.

3. Have 'XP' be automatically given out for a period of time that PlaneShift is played by non-afk people. For example, when you are in the game you may get a set amount of XP every 5 minutes or so. If you don't make any user-input from the keyboard or mouse then your character 'falls asleep' and does not get any XP for being awake. This would   pretty much just reward people for logging on and doing things, if no other way was given for gaining XP then the most powerful people would be those who spend lots of time in PS... assuming they use the XP to train and practice skills with.


Personally, I would like to see the introduiction of potions that give XP for drinking them. make the potion ingredients be various items from around Planeshift that have to be gathered together. It could create a pretty decent economy with different people gathering different things, alchemists mixing them into potions and then selling them to people. It would turn the 'powerleving by killing monsters over and over' into 'powerleveling by gathering items, trading, and working with other players'

And before potion making comes out have an NPC merchant sell them, could provide a decent investment for people with massive amounts of tria they don't use.


As for the actual topic about people exploiting bugs to gain XP while AFK: I would suggest the idea that was proposed in this thread about having people who where AFK for while (say 5 or 10 minutes) have their character fall asleep or something. Then while asleep they cannot auto-defend and if they are next to an agressive monster they get killed. If AFK for an hour then the game automatically logs off and shuts down... possibly leaving a message saying "You have been Disconneted from PlaneShift because to seem to have been away from the keyboard for more that 60 minutes".

Or something like that.

bilbous

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Re: Unwritten Rules
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2006, 01:21:11 am »
3. Have 'XP' be automatically given out for a period of time that PlaneShift is played by non-afk people. For example, when you are in the game you may get a set amount of XP every 5 minutes or so. If you don't make any user-input from the keyboard or mouse then your character 'falls asleep' and does not get any XP for being awake. This would   pretty much just reward people for logging on and doing things, if no other way was given for gaining XP then the most powerful people would be those who spend lots of time in PS... assuming they use the XP to train and practice skills with.

This has been suggested by myself and possibly others and I think it could work along with just assigning the skills and eliminating any kind of training. I would like tosuggest a refinement and have the experience start the minute the character is created and increment even when off-line at some low rate. The rate could increase for time spent on-line with that character and a gm could give a bonus multiplier for participation in events. In the likely case that the devs would not want to throw away their hard work on the training system it could be tweaked so that after allocating the skills it would take some time for the skill to update and the current system could be used to reduce that time. This way those who don't want to train anything and just spend their time playing make-believe (well it is all make-believe, don't get your knickers in a knot here) can do what they want and still get the statistics to back their play and those who enjoy playing with the toys the devs provide can do that too. The role players will get their training bonuses by participating in events and the game mechanic afficionados will get theirs from interacting with the game system and everyone will be happy.

AryHann

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Re: Unwritten Rules
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2006, 08:16:31 am »
Uhm, the thread seems to have gone in another direction that the original title...
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