Should a full defensive stance count as attacking a mob?

[Pip]

Shalmaneser, you knew I was training my light armour and you deliberately jumped in and took my mob so that you could start this discussion!

You have not actually said which side of the argument you favour, I would be interested to know.

This is how I see it in the context of the game:
The arena is a place where you go to train your combat skills; if it was a real place you would probably pay a fee to spend time with a sparring partner. How you use that time is your own business. You would not appreciate someone else coming in and using your training time without so much as a by your leave. You would probably start demanding your money back from the management. Therefore OOC reporting your behaviour as kill stealing is not unreasonable.

By the way, if you had not run off after asking me not to use that mercenary to train my light armour we could have discussed and come to some arrangement. I have no objection to sharing and if someone asks me nicely I will usually let them have the mob and move on to something else.

[bilbous]

Facetious comment: I think the problem was you were tying up a mercenary and not a rat.

Out of curiousity was it one of the mercenaries that drop nothing? There is usually less trouble with these.

[Datruth]

Facetious comment: I think the problem was you were tying up a mercenary and not a rat.

Out of curiousity was it one of the mercenaries that drop nothing? There is usually less trouble with these.

Good point, it must have meant something.

Next time probably try training with a useless monster.

L.A and M.A train just as fast.

[zhai]

Why do players just have to have the mob? Is it so important to level up, loot or get experience that you'd place it above everyone's right to have a good time?

If you find yourself in this situation, whether as the trainee or the new camper, ask yourself: Do I have to have this mob?

If you're the first: you can always find unwanted mobs with no loot, little experience and more secluded, so if you're objective is just to level up why not move on? If you want it all you're being selfish because engaging in combat with a mob for 10-15 minutes might not be against the rules but it is certainly not polite and inconsiderate to other players.

And if you're the latter: is it too much to ask to wait a few more minutes or come back in a while? It's not like the other person is not going to kill the mob ever. They will do that immediately after they level up and they will have to go to their trainer so the mob will be free. A simple "I'll wait but you should go find another mob after you're done in return" will do.

You can't prevent running into jerks (I'm speaking in general not about anyone in particular) but it certainly isn't worth getting mad or frustrated over it. Just move on and let that player who has to have the mob or they'll die be happy in their lonely and sorry little world. That you can be for them: sorry.

[Dahoma]

My question is, did you wait? Or did you just wait a second or two and then jumped in and started attacking?Or maybe you did wait, but you didn't ask the other person if they were done. If they weren't and said something like "Yeah this is gonna take a while" , then I  could see taking the monster away from him. Because if you're doing something like raising your armour class i'm pretty sure you can do it at any monster and it doesn't have to be the best ones.

[Nikodemus]

Garile,  I don't think you are willing to change your way of thinking, to the point that you even claim dev team is working the way you want. Even when I quoted what Talad think about the time you don't RP and you obviously don't RP accepting OOC, thus playing along it, not even trying to change it to the way it should be.
You probably don't do it all the time, but it's enough.

More on topic:
The question was: What from the two options is KS.
The answer is: None of them, there is no such thing as KS in-game in PS. The moment you enter PS in-game, you are acting as your character and everything what is OOC don't exist for your character. Character first, Player second. So, even if KS exist for you as player, in-game you are acting as your character who can't be KS, coz its purely MMORPG artifact

Pip, what? mercenary being a mob? who cares you were training your LA. In 99% i can say you were acting OOC, coz even if in the given example you were apprentice and the mercenary your teacher who trained your LA, i doubt it was that way. I bet you would kill the mercenary with no respect at all what proves he was not teaching you.
Its another MMORPG artifact, you train on enemies you are supposed to kill because they are threatening you. At least in most cases.
So Pip, i rather say Zanzibar was acting IC with his char, rather than you with your what take all your rights away.

[Araye]

I have to say, I like the idea of paying for admission to the arena.

Maybe there could be even more types of skill trainers in there?  This would make the Arena totally IC.

Nice idea Pip.

[Pip]

Pip, what? mercenary being a mob? who cares you were training your LA. In 99% i can say you were acting OOC, coz even if in the given example you were apprentice and the mercenary your teacher who trained your LA, i doubt it was that way. I bet you would kill the mercenary with no respect at all what proves he was not teaching you.
Its another MMORPG artifact, you train on enemies you are supposed to kill because they are threatening you. At least in most cases.
So Pip, i rather say Zanzibar was acting IC with his char, rather than you with your what take all your rights away.

I didn't design the game the way it is, the whole thing is quite unrealistic, we all have our own way of roleplaying who is to say one is right and another is wrong. Shalmaneser told me not to train light armour on that mercenary, he then disappeared before I could answer him. He came back a few minutes later killed the mercenary nearby and then jumped in and, without another word, killed the mercenary I was in combat with. That, in the very least, was rude. I was not leaving anyone else hanging around waiting and yes, in fact, I did kill the mercenary a few times during the process. (And there is a big difference between a teacher and a sparring partner)

I have to say, I like the idea of paying for admission to the arena.

Maybe there could be even more types of skill trainers in there?  This would make the Arena totally IC.

Nice idea Pip.

Thanks I thought so too

[Janner]

 First things first, nothing to do with GM rules, the BOSS man himself , please go to this link.   http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=21538.0

 Second it does not matter if it is a loot-able mod or not, everyone has a right to fight/train there own way, and to the loot.

 Also would like to point out that I do not think any of you have been to arena for a long time, every thing is camped 24 hours a day mostly, so a empty one is a real big find. Would be very interested how you would explain how to train your light armor, within the mechanics we have at the moment IC.

[bilbous]

it does not matter if it is a loot-able mod or not, everyone has a right to fight/train there own way, and to the loot.

I think the point about it not being lootable is that there is less competition for these mobs as loot is a consideration for some, if not most people.

Also would like to point out that I do not think any of you have been to arena for a long time, every thing is camped 24 hours a day mostly, so a empty one is a real big find. Would be very interested how you would explain how to train your light armor, within the mechanics we have at the moment IC.

I go to the Arena almost every time I go on-line, you have seen me. I agree it is congested. I think a lot of time it is because of multi-clienting players. Nearly every time I go there there is someone on most of the mobs on the spokes, the glads, the one merc and the rogues. Quite often I will run around checking all the spokes and I will come up to a mob with a character standing on it. More often than not 10-15 seconds later the mob and character are still standing then with no fight happening. I then move in to kill the mob. Sometime after I have done this two or three times the character miraculously comes to life and they start attacking when they see me appear out of the stairwell. This is particularly true of the Dlayo stoop.  It may be that these people are really having inaudible conversations, in guild or group channels or by tells but to me if you are not going to work the mob consistantly you should step back to allow someone else to move in rather than to stay atop what you are not fighting.

I train my light armor the way I train everything else by fighting a lot of mobs. If that means I have to go off in the wilderness or under the temple to fight then that is what I do. There is a gang of 4 rogues on the way to Ojaveda, there are bandits and rogues outside Ojaveda and in the area beyond the magic shop. There are lots of unused mobs in the wilderness and if you kill them too fast you can use crummy weapons.

My light armor is now 50 so I am going to have to look for a new trainer as there doen't seem to be one in the arena anymore. I have to go to Oja to train my dagger anyway.


EDIT

I would like to suggest that the way to prevent congestion in the arena is to prevent the glads, mercs and rogues from dropping anything there. It really makes little sense to have an endless supply of weapons to be looted in a training facility.

[Karyuu]

I thought that if someone was attacking a monster (doesn't matter what stance) another player couldn't just jump in? Is it different when someone's using a defensive stance?

[Idoru]

it seems so, to me it seems like you actually have to be causing damage, which doesnt happen on full defensive stance

[Bereror]

I thought that if someone was attacking a monster (doesn't matter what stance) another player couldn't just jump in? Is it different when someone's using a defensive stance?

Neko kyouran explained the technical part quite well in his post. If neither you or the NPC make any damage, the combat lock on the server times out and everybody is free to take the NPC. The rest is just a discussion whether parking your character next to the NPC is equal to attacking it or not. And you won't train any LA if the NPC fails to make any damage either.

[Janner]

I thought that if someone was attacking a monster (doesn't matter what stance) another player couldn't just jump in? Is it different when someone's using a defensive stance?

Neko kyouran explained the technical part quite well in his post. If neither you or the NPC make any damage, the combat lock on the server times out and everybody is free to take the NPC. The rest is just a discussion whether parking your character next to the NPC is equal to attacking it or not. And you won't train any LA if the NPC fails to make any damage either.

 Have to disagree there light armor was going up and a little damage was being done to the player. also if magic is used it to will cause the caster to own the bot, in this case no magic was used.

[Bereror]

Have to disagree there light armor was going up and a little damage was being done to the player. also if magic is used it to will cause the caster to own the bot, in this case no magic was used.

If the light armor skill was going up and some damage was done as well, then it is a bug that the combat lock didn't work. Exploiting bugs (like kill stealing with magic) should be punished by GMs, but I'm still not convinced that there is a bug.