Potion Use and Other Tactics

[Nikodemus]

Bilbous, I didn't meant you to unerstand that alchemy has nothing to do with magic. It does. Some potions more, some less. But when you are mixing two things, in this case magic and chemistry, you can't expect them to work in the same way as they normally are, while not mixed. They are mixed to have special effect. For example if you won't mix them, coz you want to have pure spell effect, you don't have a potion anymore. Potions are potions, something you can drink, because they are mix of magic and chemistry.

PStime-RLtime
You are completly misunderstanding the concept. Imagine that two countries came up with the same name for their value, but gaveit different values. It is the same in PS comparing to RL. You are wrong that 1RL = 1PS . When i'm writing that drinking a potion takes 5 seconds, i mean 5RL seconds.
AFAIR 5RL   = 30PS , because the multiplier is 6.
Just like you wrote "12 ounces is about 355 ml." ^^

[Under the moon]

On the consistancy of potions and their containers in a medieval setting:

First off, potions are not -allways- a liquid. The very definition you gave states that they are -usually- liquid. That is the same as saying the sky is -usualy- blue. Is it always? No. A potion can be a mixture of something dry, or even a paste, set in folded paper.  A potion can also be any size you can imagine.

Now for the containers. Let's look at this logicaly. Potions designed for instant healling in battle settings would have to be two things. One, they would have to be easy and fast to consume, in or out of battle. This leads to the arguement that they would be small. Now, to make them fast to drink (since they do seem to be liquid in this game), despite the small opening, they would have to be soft, and likely made out of a cured animal hide (is that what rat hides are used for?) or internal organ. Further supporting this is the fact that glass and clay are heavy, hard to drink out of, and very easy to break. By the time you were done being pummelled by a foe, half your potions would be crushed. Then, take into acount that glass was very expensive to make in medieval times, and would not be handed out like candy.

Taking all the facts into consideration, you are left with the assumption that potions are a very potant liquid contained in a durable, cheap, small, and soft container that degrades when dropped. A cured bladder from a small animal would easily fit all of those criteria. Glass, clay, and even metal would not.

[Nikodemus]

Taking all the facts into consideration, you are left with the assumption that potions are a very potant liquid contained in a durable, cheap, small, and soft container that degrades when dropped. A cured bladder from a small animal would easily fit all of those criteria. Glass, clay, and even metal would not.

As i pointed in this thread, there must be one more condition: They have to actually work almost instantly. It is up to the devs how and if they limit use of potions. I would like them to limit it a lot. If they do it, your idea about potions from skins wouldn't be that universal. There would be more glass and less skin containers.
We shall see

[bilbous]

Nik, I suggested that to me potions would be magically created and alchemy would produce some other natural healing liquid. I did not suggest they would be mixed or even that both techniques would be combined. This is just me talking about my expectations and may not be reflected by the game design. An example of a potion (outside the game) from a clerical aspect would be holy water, ordinary water infused with godly magic that can be used to damage undead. An alchemic preperation would be something like herbal cough syrup, natural remedies that could be prepared from ingredients collected from the field. It might be possible to combine the two types of effects but I would think it uncommon. Perhaps we are just disagreeing on terminology and I want to be clear as to what I mean.

As far as the real time - game time question goes I was suggesting that to drink six ounces of a liquid the consistancy of water would take 5 seconds of game time which would be about one second of real time.

I could chug that in five seconds wihich is less than one second in game

Perhaps I was a little sloppy in how I described it.

Zan just a couple points

ii I remember that sort of thing and it was amusing but also a very laggy experience. The only thing that generates mass combat now seems to be guild warfare. You are right that it doesn't happen much anymore.

iii Natural creatures in my mind should be killable and to me an ulbernaut is just a big bear-like natural creature. It may be that the original inhabitants bred/arrived too fast for the ulbers to eat them all but I think the ulbers would have been hunted to extinction if they posed too much of a threat. If you want nearly unkillable monsters in the game perhaps you could convince a GM to put on a skin not currently in game and to set his stats to suitably tough levels such that a collection of the greatest warriors will have difficulty slaying him. This would seem to be a perfect theme for a RP event. They might even enjoy an excuse to trash some players. I fundamentally disagree that there should be standard monsters that the most experienced character could not defeat, at least on a semi permanent basis. I do not have a problem if such a beast should appear in advance of the implimentation of the skills needed to defeat it. I do not expect you to agree.

UtM

I think a potion should be a liquid of varying viscosity, I believe the paste in the paper would be more appropriately termed a poultice for example. Something the consistancy of pudding might be an unguent. Just a small quibble.

[Under the moon]

bilbous: I am not quibbling, nor putting forth my opinion. Just the definition. I think potions in the game should be liquid.

Nikodemus: I am not sure what you are saying, exactly. How fast a potion works has, well... nothing to do with what it is contained in. The only reason to put something in glass is if it would not be held for long in any other type of container by way of degrading it. Limiting the use of potions also has nothing to do with what they are held in.

[bilbous]

I'm sorry I meant that I was quibbling.

[Nikodemus]

UtM: If the potion is working slow, there is no need to use container which allow its fast use. It may be skin, glss or whatever, because 2 or 5 seconds doesn't make a difference, when the effect is taking over a minute or longer. It has an impact on the material. You agree that liquids aren't kept inside neutral materials like glss with no reason, so without thinking od to many factors and looking how it is in game, the default contaner is glass. It would turn into skin if how fast you drink it mattered. And it would matter if the effect would be very fast.
If you can't undersatnd it (I posted it in this thread before and it is annoying to repeat myself), then i can't explain it better.

This doesn't mean skin potions doesnt exist, because there are various reasons for that..

[Under the moon]

Please read my entire post about why glass would not be used. Most of my points have nothing to do with how fast you can drink it. Let me re-state.

Glass is:

Fragile (see easily breakable)
Costly (the glass would cost more than its contents)
Heavy (the weight of material vs. the weight of contents is less efficient than other materials)
Solid (they are the shape that they are, where skins or bladders are malleable, and therefore easier to pack)
Rare (skins or bladders are just plain easier to make and come by in a medieval setting. Even the basic farmer could make a waterskin)

Potions are a throw-away item. You do not use glass for that. You use the cheapest, lightest, and most durable container you can find. That, my friend, is the waterskin.

[bilbous]

I suppose it depends on the quantity you are packing, it might make sense for an army or an epic adventure to use a keg of some size.

[zanzibar]

I think that when we use a potion, we should be left with the empty container - glass flask or otherwise.  We can then sell the container back to an alchemist, or use it to hold potions we make ourselves, or we can use it as a container for found items like water from an enchanted stream. :-D  It would make things more interesting I think.

[bilbous]

That seems like a decent idea, perhaps we can have a ceramic bowl and tongs for smelting purposes as well and boxes for our pies and wrapping paper for our fish and scabbards for our swords, all in good time.  I think I saw somewhere that dropping containers was something of a design decision but that doesn't mean they can't be reconsidered in the future.

[Nikodemus]

glass is also:

Durable: yeah, there are different ways you can damage material. For example glass won't be eaten, is resilient at stabs, coz it move aside, what can't be told about elastic skin container.
Long lasting: It won't loose its properties over time
Cheap: yeah, what make you think potions are easy and cheap to make? The Fact every computer RPG has to have them, so that player don't have t wait for his char to recover? Maybe actually the liquid is more expensive than the glass container? Like, I complain that they are currently too cheap in PS and you ask  why they aren't made of skin instead of glass.
Transparent: you see whats inside, when you buy it for exmple, or if the content loose it properties by changing consistency/color
Solid: when you cause preasure on it, you may be sure the cork won't jump out, like with the elastic skins.
Neutral material: it doesn't react easy, or at all with other chemical substances.

You can that both types of potions have their advantages and disadvantages. Thats why i said that: ^^

This doesn't mean skin potions doesnt exist, because there are various reasons for that..

[bilbous]

I just had an odd thought. If potions are as I suggest magical in nature as opposed to perhaps natural elixers made by alchemy then they would not absolutely need containers, they could be magical bubbles that dissolve when they contact saliva. As I said a strange and unique, I think, idea. I give it freely to the community.

[Nikodemus]

Yeah, i forgot to tell you before, hoping you won't extend your creation, that there is reason why we have alchemy and spells. First is for mixing chemistry with magic in order to gain a potion, half magical liquid which may be used by non-magicians. Second, an effect which need to be cast by a mage and mage only, to have maybe better effect than this what a potion may provide.

There are no potions which does the same thing as spells and which don't involve chemistry.

typos.... *yawn*

[bilbous]

Is that an official position or is it your personal opinion. I do not know who you are, are you entitled to speak for the devs? My understanding of alchemy is that it is the use of non-living materials in natural preparations just as herbology is the use of natural organic materials in natural preparations and then there are the magically enchanted effects which were less compatable than the former two. This understanding has less to do with the PS world as it does with how the terms have been used in popular culture.