I find the "horns and tail aren't a necessity for demons" argument to be invalid in this case, since this isn't the only thing that Diaboli being demonic is based upon. It may not be a necessity for demons, since demons can traditionally take on many forms but many of the true demonic forms (as in "true", not a veil) or an evolution to a true demon certainly include horns and tail, and even more. Besides, coupled with a name like Diaboli, which literaly means "Devil" in Latin, their homeland/realm description, a penalty to holy/blessed items, and their description specifically stating that they are a malicious race, and certainly looking very demonic, they are very much a demonic race.
Your argument for Klyros doesn't work because their description clearly states that despite their appearance they are not an evil race, which is a direct opposite of Diaboli description.
Yes. However, I was commenting on the looks and the personality separately. IOW, considering
only the looks, and afterwards
only the personality. And their looks alone don't suffice to classify them "demons". This is why the Klyros argument
does work, when looking at the looks only (in fact, I have seen that argument about the Klyros being made a couple of times, so it isn't something I dreamed up.). Doing this is valid because the look will be less likely to get changed than the personality. Even if not, the two can be changed independantly, so they do not mandate each other. Whether or not any of that actually will happen is more than uncertain.
I also do agree that the combination of looks and personality feeds the demon idea.
Ever heard of "Advocatus Diaboli"? That literaly translates as "Devil's Advocate" from Latin.
Yes, I know that phrase quite well. And indeed I know that "Diaboli" translates to "devil". It is, after all, why I think their name is so bad.
They are not represented as purely liars and thieves. They are more of a seductive kind of evil. It is also quite clear from their description that a lot more than a "few" fall for their charm. To me, the Diaboli are a devious race, who, despite their known inclination towards "taboo" subjects, are very hard to resist because of their charm and charisma.
Yes, this is the impression that is created. I however am not sure about the extent of "malicious" that actually fits. If they indeed were inclined to bring harm and dread to any place they may get, then, looks or not, they would be hunted and driven into the stone labyrinths, or similar. At a certain point, no amount of charm can stop hate from taking action. The most appropriate way to describe them would therefore be "lawful evil", because that would allow them to prosper inside a host civilisation. However, the "quite unreliable" indicates that "lawful" isn't a good match, either.
Interestingly, I recall several other statements about them that aren't on the site. Maybe from the char creation, or maybe they got removed. These basically stated that Diaboli don't know the concept of "other people's property" (making them thieves) as well as being likely to be found occupying governmental positions (meaning that they can't be much more evil than RL politicians). These would have mitigated the overall evilness quite a bit. Lacking this, your interpretation is indeed more applicable.
Ever played any of the Elderscrolls games? Did the Dark Elves being "shunned", especially by High Elves, make it any less fun to play as such a race? Heck no! In fact, it made it more fun, and exposed just how pretentious High Elves really were.
I haven't, but dark elves are a quite popular concept. I base my views on this sort of thing on the Drow from XDD. Dark Elves are more or less the same everywhere, maybe except the matriarchic society and living conditions. You find them in WOW as well as in Lineage II, and I'm certain in most other MMORPGs as well.
I also agree that things like this
can, if RP'd well, bring interesting spice to RP. I have experiences playing evil Drow myself.
Simply put, I don't think that Diaboli encourage racism in the game. Certainly not the kind you'd see in real life. Remember, it's a game, a fantasy, and no one really gets hurt no matter what happens.
Look, seriously I don't think that, either.
However, I
do think that there would be more then just a little distrust. Exactly as you said, you wouldn't dare bringing one home, and this implies that they would not be something you want to be identified with, or connected to. It would hurt your reputation. This in turn leads to "ghettos", since they are far too many to just blend in. And ghettos are a very good target for troublemakers. Now, add to this that their hate would actually be justified, and provable, you get at the very least a state of constant, if veiled, hostility.
I am aware that in RPGs, this sort of thing tends to either go completely ignored, or played to the extreme.
Edit: Whether or not anyone gets
actually hurt, things must be treated from an IC perspective. This means that one must, IC-ly, react as if one got hurt. After all, the char
does get hurt. Therefore, one cannot ignore the effects that these things would have on the population and thus world. Not doing so is comparable to ignoring a gobble gnawing at your char because you, as player, aren't getting hurt. IOW, it would completely eliminate all realism and immersion from the game if one bothers to think about it (which good RPers usually do at some point). /Edit
If it isn't clear yet, I'd like to state that I like Diaboli, and if it causes some people to "shun" them because they didn't read that race's description too well, so be it, I don't care. I like the idea of an evil race that is also hard to resist in their beauty and charm. At least it's more direct and pure than a pretentious "good" that something like "high elves" in traditional fantasy are.
I think that this combination is necessary for it to be doable at all, but it's very problematic if it is so very extreme as it would need to be in order to satisfy both a reasonable interpretation of the race description, as well as a large quantity of Diaboli in the same place with the other races. It would basically mean that they needed to have an almost magical charm, which in turn would make everyone else nothing but puppets to them. And while this idea might appeal to some, I think that it is a bad thing. It would also mean that the Diaboli were severely off-balance with any other race, making anything else unplayable (would
you want to RP someone who will turn into a mindless, drooling servant at the very sight of a significant part of the population? Wouldn't be much fun after a quite short while. Not for me, anyway.).
I do not necessarily mind the idea of an evil race. However, if this is intended to be the Diaboli in PS, then I would much prefer an explicit statement (more than the race description does ATM, i.e., something like with Klyros, for example: "Their personality is as evil as their look suggests"). And in this case, the inevitable results for society must be stated as well. With diaboli being the way they can be interpreted to be, there would not ever be lasting peace, not even mostly peace, in Yliakum. If the Diaboli wouldn't be shunned and / or driven away, then they would be pitting cities, or even levels, against each other, making the unified government of Yliakum completely unfeasible (or, alternatively, it would have zero actual power). Failing this, the entire stalactite would be in a state of constant oppression and possibly fear, much like the Drow society from XDD.
Such a setting may or may not be worthwile, or appealing. My point is that the way PS's setting is described, it is far different from this hypothetical setting. After all, there isn't even a hint of raging corruption as in for example Russia. Thus it would be in dire need of a rewrite to accommodate the above interpretation of the Diaboli.
It has been argued that the extra damage of holy weapons
can be explained by the diety's dislike for the Diaboli race (so that not the property of holiness were the factor, but that the diety gives more power to the weapon when it is used against Diaboli). This interpretation would also work for blessed vs. undead, etc., i.e., each time the effect cannot be explained by a special way of making a weapon (blade shape, etc.).
Last but not least, I have yet to see a good argument for why Diaboli are not an evil or a demonic race. All I see is "not necessarily" but not really doing homework on the race and continuously missing major facts from history, description, and racial traits.
I hope that I have explained the "not necessarily" and "missing of facts", and that I did "do my homework".
