Dutch to ban wearing of Muslim burqa in public

[LARAGORN]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061117/ts_nm/dutch_burqa_ban_dc

There is a lot of heated discussion over this ruling.

[Jekkar]

Weird, i'm dutch and I haven't heared anything about this on the news.

[Xordan]

Yeah I saw it on the news here in the UK.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't the ban actually on wearing any item which covers the face? If so then it's fair that it includes optional religious dress too. I don't see what the fuss is about, other than it being another excuse for people to cry out about 'Islamiphobia'.

[ThomPhoenix]

I'm dutch and I can tell you this is a hoax. There's been discussion over it yes, but we're not even close to a law or anything.
And Xordan is right, some parties wanted ban every face masking headwear, because of security. (camera identification)
It's not just some anti-muslim proposal as some would think, though I'm sure everyone will be saying that.

[Lanarel]

ThomP should not spend so much time on planeshift and watch the news once in a while
I am Dutch too, and did see something on the news (and found a newspaper article for Thom: http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/article53160711.ece (in dutch)).
End of 2005 dutch parliament did decide they want to ban burkas in public places. The Dutch Cabinet (primeminister, other ministers) did not prepare a law for this. Recently, the parliament (by majority of votes) tried to force them to do so, and (according to the newspaper) they were probably going to decide to not ban it, but make wearing it in public places a pain, by asking women who wear them for identification all the time (indeed based on law that you are not allowed to walk around unidentifiably).
With all this, most important fact is that in a few days we have elections, and all parties are putting all kinds of things on the agenda in the hope it will help them get votes.

[Valbrandr]

I dont know why all the headdresses get banned in many parts of Europe like they do.. America has no laws like that and I dont understand why they are needed

Edit: Anyone see the ban in France on denying the Armenian Genocide?

[Datruth]

Yeah I saw it on the news here in the UK.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't the ban actually on wearing any item which covers the face? If so then it's fair that it includes optional religious dress too. I don't see what the fuss is about, other than it being another excuse for people to cry out about 'Islamiphobia'.

Actually it's the head, the face is in full view.
And it's a big issue because the scarf doesn't really hurt anyone else, but taking it off does hurt the person wearing it.

Basically, the way i've read about it is it's about Modesty, same reason we all wear clothes and speak to each other, being naked would be awekward and wouldn't be modest.(I know about nudist colonies, so don't even try it, there are extremists on every issue. I'm speaking of the vast majority of the world)

To me i don't mind if they wear the Veil or not, I will glance over, which i admit is rude, but they feel safe in it.
It is also a religous obligation.

And yes it will attract attention, hence the glance over part, but then again it's not hurting me in any way, so i see no problem in it.

Banning it would be a kind of attack on religeon.

Crosses arn't a religeous duty to be worn, let's say one day they were, that Jesus came back and made them a requirement to be a christian.
Now imagine those same crosses being banned.

You feel as if you're betraying your Savior, the man who killed himself, just so your sins could be purged. He asked one thing of you, to wear that cross. Imagine again, the reaction of it being banned.

I think you see why it's such an issue now.

~~Datruth

[bilbous]

I'm going to start a religion that makes it mandatory for adherents to kick anyone who ask them who they are and then say I am immune to assault laws because my religion made me do it. Anyone want to sign up? Free kicks at the can to all followers.

[LARAGORN]

Crosses arn't a religeous duty to be worn, let's say one day they were, that Jesus came back and made them a requirement to be a christian.
Now imagine those same crosses being banned.

You feel as if you're betraying your Savior, the man who killed himself, just so your sins could be purged. He asked one thing of you, to wear that cross. Imagine again, the reaction of it being banned.

I think you see why it's such an issue now.

~~Datruth

Funny you should mention a cross. Not long ago (a few weeks) a flight attendant was told to remove her cross, as it offended one of the passengers. She was threatend to lose her job if she didnt remove it. ( i will try to find the link)

[Datruth]

I'm going to start a religion that makes it mandatory for adherents to kick anyone who ask them who they are and then say I am immune to assault laws because my religion made me do it. Anyone want to sign up? Free kicks at the can to all followers.

If you can get 20% of the world to follow you than i guess people will have to listen.

We have an our Constitution a thing called "Established" religeon, we can see through phonies like the one you just mentioned.
And like i said, If the Pracitce doesn't hurt anyone, than It should be allowed.

Your analogy fails on all these points, you don't have an established religeon and you cause pain to others.

While this Lady has an Established Religeon and she causes no pain to anyone.

Nice try though Bilbo

~~Datruth

[Karyuu]

...He was trying to make a joke.

[Datruth]

...He was trying to make a joke.

Yes, a joke on how making a religeon shields you and allows you to hurt others.
Which was being compared to the topic.

I had no problem with it, i'm glad he posted it actually, so people could see that there are measures to stop religeons from harming others.
In this such case though, no harm was done.

And do i have scent of karyuu on me, i could swear i attract them from miles away.

~~Datruth

[bilbous]

It was a joke but it did have a half serious point though. What makes a religion? Is Scientology a religion? It was invented by L. Ron Hubbard a science fiction author on a bet. Does the Church of the Latter Day Saints a religion? It was founded by some American. Jehovah's Witnesses? Christian Scientists? Hari Krishnas? Is Opus Dei? or are they just a Catholic sect? What about Jedi there is a move afoot, in England I believe, to have it recognised as such. Wicca? Druidism? As far as I can tell the difference between a religion and a cult is that a cult is focused on its leader as god while a religion focuses on some nebulous spirit from which all good comes from.

That said I was mostly just trying to be amusing in a semi-on-topic manner. And please do not get upset if I mentioned your particular religion in dubious company in this post, I do not mean to pass judgement on what anyone believes. I believe in nothing I can't see for myself and that has made me cynical. Not everything I can see is what it appears to be.

[Xordan]

Actually it's the head, the face is in full view.

No it isn't.... this is about burqa's which do cover the face, and come under this law. If it was about headscarf's then it would be totally different.... but it isn't so your point isn't that relevant. So I don't see why it's a big deal. If they don't like it then they don't have to live there. Same goes for people who want to wear their balaclava's.

[bilbous]

Here is a link to the BBC coverage: BBC and an excerpt:

The latest move came after an expert committee judged that it would not contravene Dutch law.
Other forms of face coverings, such as crash helmets with visors that obscure the face, would also be covered by a legal ban.