PS organisational issues and some proposels

[Sunshine]

Hi !

I have worked (and I am still working) in small and big projects which were solely based on volunteers. The difference was that these projects always ran in RL and therefore a failure would have had real consequences. And maybe another important difference is that these projects were mainly within an movement which trains his followers from the first day on in Teamwork.

The most important things I learned there:
- To meet the dead lines you have to delegate.
- When you delegate give exact goals. That does not mean that you prescribe every little step, but you have to describe the final outcome exactly.
- To ensure a consistency within the project the general settigs must be defined exactly.
- You have to have a open comunication within the team to prevent things missed or done double.
- You have to monitor the status of each team regularly - but only act if you see deviations. If they are on track only a few encouriging words are needed.
- From time to time you have compile an overview for everybody on the team so that everybody knows whats going on.

I see it in my job that this way is not always easy - especially for the bosses since they have to hand over some authorities, but believe me with some coaching almost everybody (and especially comitted people) can learn to work in teams, and the team output boosts.

Finally I want to add that I did such things even with kids and in 9 out of 10 cases the kids surpised with their part of the project - and believe me after 20 years you are not easily surprised anymore.

So I can only advice every teamleader: Be confident in your team and delegate !

Sunshine

[Idoru]

Awesome post, I am the only paid member of a voluntary organisation and I must say that you are correct in all you say. Especially the point about delegation, If you dont Delegate you end up with far too much responsibility, that causes what ever you are doing to all fall on your shoulders. This is generally not a good thing. Seeing as the Devs are all volunteers, I must mention the fact that 'volunteer burn-out' Is the biggest reason for volunteer organisations failing.

[Datruth]

The short of the story is, We all want this.

The short story of the problem is, some people want a centralized team not a community to help.
{those people hold all the chess pieces}

You look at a spade, for a spade.

Basically, this game has always been run by a centralized team, lead by a person who holds everything.
It has always been that way.
Although you want community participation, and i do too, it won't happen.

Why? Because the person who holds all the chess pieces, won't let it happen.

This thread is actually the horse that will never die, it's a constant want.
People think this game is all about a community that comes together and makes it as one.

Maybe that whole open source thing tricks them into this, who knows.

But to keep it short, a centralized team, is all that has ever been wanted, and as for eagerness to let poeple join that team.....
Let's just say.... if they get a new member..... every 2 months..... that's a record. (I'm serious by the way)


The team says they arn't in desperate need of help, and i believe them, because they are getting updates out about every 1 and a half months.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Again to make it short:

This has always been a Centralized effort to create a game.
And the community has always been denied entrance to their work.

And no, don't say, "fine i'll just get the game and rebuild it on my computer, touch up the code and make my own planeshift"
I'm sorry to say, you can't, none of the art is open source, to my knowledge, and alot of steps have been put in place to stop such a thing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So what can you do?

Apply to the team, if you want to join them, someone will post a link eventually, i'm too lazy to look for it.
And if you really need something to do or help with, Go see baldur's thread, Adraax: The klyros city project.
There you can atleast stretch your muscles working on projects.

~~Datruth

[Parallo]

I'd rather a centralized group.

[Datruth]

I'd rather a centralized group.

Your not alone bro, alot of people would, not me, but other people.

And the best part is, the people in power side with you   

~~Datruth

[Parallo]

You can't talk about it like a democracy if the majority are against you.

[Induane]

I am not necessarily for or against a centralized system.  It seems to have worked to fruition well enough.  What I do not like is the complete disallowment of community contribution without  being a developer yourself.  I had to go through 2 people to get my changes to the ubuntu build guide in because I'm not a "dev".  I don't want to be a dev, nor work on deadlines, I would rather enjoy the community and contribute what I can.  I'm not looking for another job, just a nice place to contribute some things.

You see I don't think that people totally object to a centralized system, but rather the policy of "anything made by a non dev can never be utilized."  I've seen some excellent character skins on the forums, seen beautiful scenes and buildings.  The Community Modeling Project was designed to be as general as possible so that it could easily be extended by a real art dev to finish off a new area thats already planned.  My point was that the community is capable of accomplishing many things on its own, and given the chance could be a valueable asset to the PS dev team if they would ever decide to utilize it.  We don't have to be just "testers".  We can help bring the world to fruition.

[Parallo]

If you want to be more than a tester you apply to be more than a tester. I don't see a problem.

[acraig]

We could use some more Liaisons to the general community but that is a job in an of itself.  I know that I don't have the time to hand hold every person that wants to build the client.  I can assume it's the same for people that want to donate artwork or other such content.  We need to develop an effective layer between the core development team and the community that can pre-screen some of the content.  This can often be a fustrating role though since it's sometimes hard to get a clear picture of what is needed. 

[LARAGORN]

acraig;
Liasons are a great idea, but.. even when the screening procces is done it is still left on the table for Talads approval. His time is limited and his duties are plentyfull. I know this has been discussed a million times but, there needs to be more deligation from Talad. He needs to entrust people with the task of following his vision, or else the project willcontinue at a snails pace for decades.

[ThomPhoenix]

I know that I don't have the time to hand hold every person that wants to build the client.

No need, we have Rolenun for that

[Induane]

If you want to be more than a tester you apply to be more than a tester. I don't see a problem.

Maybe you don't, but I do.  I think that a few people might love to help but simply don't have the ability to make the comitments and work within deadlines.  That doesn't mean those people shouldn't be able to contribute to PS, it just means they don't need to be part of the core team because their situation doesn't make that a viable option.

I know that I don't have the time to hand hold every person that wants to build the client.

  I'm there almost daily, as well as Rolenun who knows even more, and as such I think we do a pretty good job of handling build questions.

He needs to entrust people with the task of following his vision, or else the project willcontinue at a snails pace for decades.

I agree but thats definately a hard thing for anyone to do.  It SHOULD happen but I don't know if Talad will ever trust any of us enough for a role like that.

[Datruth]

Induane I completely agree with you.

Why can't players just come in and pitch things here and there, and help out without being a dev?

Me and i feel, the vast majority of the community, would love to do that.
Sadly, the centralized team, does not want this to happen.

Remember, they hold the chess pieces, and the only way to move a pawn, is with their permission.
I'm just content now, playing the game.

You make excellent points Induane, so don't think you're at fault, it's just, this is Planeshift politics.

~~Datruth

[lordraleigh]

Here is an example of a open-source development team that works finely together with the community of players in the artwork, music and programming of the project:

http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/

In this project a considerable amount of the models came from the community and not from a permanent and centralized development team. Basically there is a list with the rough descriptions on how should the models be done and the one responsible for the Settings analyse those 3D and 2D artworks(That are licensed under GPL btw) made by the community and put the suitable ones into the game(In this project there is one person entrusted in the development team for each specific area of development with autonomy to take decisions without consulting the main dev, like was suggested in the first post of this thread, and it does not detract from its original goal because of it, also there is a contribution forum for soundtracks and some members of the community even give suggestions on programming algorithms to achieve the future features for example)

While here I see great 3D and 2D works being simply wasted away because "You're not a dev, only we can contribute!" approach. As was said... if this strictly centralized development will be the permanent view for PS. It will take decades for this game reach 1.0, and I am being optimistic.

Note: I hope the mention of another Open-source project as an example is not spamming.

[acraig]

It would help if you stop putting words in our mouths...

And I have no idea what

so don't think you're at fault, it's just, this is Planeshift politics.

means.