NPC using an expletive?

[bilbous]

Personally I think it is just a symptom of a different problem. As I have said I don't care much about the word as I use stronger language in real life. But if I was a real nasty warrior in a medieval setting and some townsperson called me a nasty name because they were too ignorant to try to make out my accent they would be dead or at least completely buggered up regardless of the consequences. Far from getting me killed it would likely get me a job with the local lord.

The npc's tend to be rude in a way that is annoying when you try to talk to them. The way these things get defended it almost seems to be intentional. Of course you can't kill the npc's or teach them respect.

[Shauri Sutlar]

When I made this thread, I thought the developers would understand. I didn't think we would all argue for 5 pages or more. The fact of the matter is that the word could offend some people and it seems incredibly easy to remedy. I don't know why it is taking so much time to talk common sense to people. It is very disappointing. If the developers don't want to take out a word that could very easily be interpreted as the NPC calling you a "sodomite" that is their choice, indeed.

Ginorey don't forget that the Catholic church accused the "heretical group" of performing sodomy. That is how it came to be known as meaning "sodomy" to begin with.

just for grins, Malfini could you please PM me with the line?  i would be very interested to see the word in the same context that you did.  it would really clear things up, at least for me. 

[Shakilai]

I still have failed to notice a single person in this thread who has been personally offended. I would say that you need to stop worrying so much about "what others possibly maybe might one day take offense with."

[Xordan]

"You want something to do? Go and tell Polyuntri Stevald I sent you. He's taking care of buggers like you."

[Malfini]

Yes, that is it. I could have posted it myself, but I was not sure whether it would be considered a spoiler. For all we know though that could mean Raithen thinks people are trying to rape him, so he sends people like that to Polyuntri Stevald so he can take care of them. 

[Shauri Sutlar]

*smiles* hence why i asked to get it in a PM, but thank you Xordan.  i can now see quite clearly why this would bother some people.  it /is/ quite the equivilant of calling someone a m**** f**** or similar.   again, however, i'm grown and i can deal with it for myself, but can also understand and sympathise with those who /could/ find it offensive.

perhaps seeing it in it's context will demonstrate more clearly Malfini's concerns to the other posters who seem to find this debate silly or nit-picking.  it is not.

[Shakilai]

Nope, still silly nitpicking

[Xordan]

I passed on the message to settings about changing it to something more feathery for the sensitive, but they can't change it right now. I'll ask Talad if I can remember, and if he has time. So it might get changed soon(tm), maybe.

And no Shauri, it's not the equivalent of calling something that. It wouldn't even cross my mind that it might be offensive. But then, I don't let myself get offended by mere words, especially things that might refer to something which is naturally found (tell all the wild animals that practice it that it isn't).

[zanzibar]

This page is from the present-day BBC.  May I call your attention to part 3, in the section titled 'Offensive Language/Gestures'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/delivery/edguidance.shtml

Irrelevant.  Ethnographic research present in this community trumps reference provided above.  Further, the context the word is used in clearly shows that it isn't being used to mean "sodomite".  Further, the BBC is ultrasensitive to offending anyone, and is therefore not a good standard to measure by.

If you can't stand to have the word "bugger" in a game, then you probably shouldn't watch tv, listen to the radio, or read literature of any sort.  I'd also advise against going outside or having relatives visit you.

When I made this thread, I thought the developers would understand. I didn't think we would all argue for 5 pages or more. The fact of the matter is that the word could offend some people and it seems incredibly easy to remedy.

1.  People understand.  They just don't agree.

2.  The easy remedy is to use the chat filters included in the game.  The solution to the problem is already there.

[Ginorey]

This page is from the present-day BBC.  May I call your attention to part 3, in the section titled 'Offensive Language/Gestures'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/delivery/edguidance.shtml

Irrelevant.  Ethnographic research present in this community trumps reference provided above.  Further, BBC is ultrasensitive to offending anyone, and is therefore not a good comparison.  If you can't stand to have the word "bugger" in a game, then you probably shouldn't watch tv, listen to the radio, or read literature of any sort.  I'd also advise against going outside or having relatives visit you.

Ethnographic research?  So you've polled the entire PS community on this and have the results sorted out by race or place of origin?  I can only assume this is what you meant by that phrase, since ethnography is the study of human cultures.  I would be interested in seeing the results of this research of yours.  Next time you see me on IRC, could you do me the great favor of sending me a copy?

As far as the rest of your post, I've heard the word before in the media, but in the phrase 'little bugger', not 'buggers like you.'  And I've read the term many times in different forms of literature.  But this is all moot, because (and I hope this is the last time I have to state this) I don't personally care about the word at all.  What I care about is that other people might take it as objectional or offensive.  Am I clear on that now?  Or do I have to put it in bold letters for you?

And, by the way, I can certainly assure you that I know more about what my relatives would say to me than you do.  So let's leave them out of it, shall we?

[Shakilai]

People might find "Diaboli" offensive. We should get rid of them just in case, so that no one will complain in the future. Because you never know, and you have to be super careful.

 

[zanzibar]

This page is from the present-day BBC.  May I call your attention to part 3, in the section titled 'Offensive Language/Gestures'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/delivery/edguidance.shtml

Irrelevant.  Ethnographic research present in this community trumps reference provided above.  Further, BBC is ultrasensitive to offending anyone, and is therefore not a good comparison.  If you can't stand to have the word "bugger" in a game, then you probably shouldn't watch tv, listen to the radio, or read literature of any sort.  I'd also advise against going outside or having relatives visit you.

Ethnographic research?  So you've polled the entire PS community on this and have the results sorted out by race or place of origin?  I can only assume this is what you meant by that phrase, since ethnography is the study of human cultures.  I would be interested in seeing the results of this research of yours.  Next time you see me on IRC, could you do me the great favor of sending me a copy?

As far as the rest of your post, I've heard the word before in the media, but in the phrase 'little bugger', not 'buggers like you.'  And I've read the term many times in different forms of literature.  But this is all moot, because (and I hope this is the last time I have to state this) I don't personally care about the word at all.  What I care about is that other people might take it as objectional or offensive.  Am I clear on that now?  Or do I have to put it in bold letters for you?

And, by the way, I can certainly assure you that I know more about what my relatives would say to me than you do.  So let's leave them out of it, shall we?

Polling is not typical of ethnographic research, let alone comprehensive polling.  Further, even if we were practicing positivist research methods, we would only need a representitive sample in order to make judgements about the community as a whole.

[Malfini]

When I made this thread, I thought the developers would understand. I didn't think we would all argue for 5 pages or more. The fact of the matter is that the word could offend some people and it seems incredibly easy to remedy.

1.  People understand.  They just don't agree.

2.  The easy remedy is to use the chat filters included in the game.  The solution to the problem is already there.

1. From reading some of the posts in this thread, I could tell that some people didn't understand.
2. That isn't a very good solution because anyone who would want to change it would have to individually modify a file to change it themselves. Not everyone will know how to do this and if some people attempt this they may even break some functionality or render their client unusable. This would just present more people in need of technical assistance.

[Shakilai]

No, I see that people did understand - they just didn't agree with your "This is the dominate definition" viewpoint. Zanzibar is absolutely correct, and "understanding" never has to mean "agreeing."

It's ridiculously easy to modify your filter and add new terms. I definitely would hate to see the dev team add every little word to the official filter that anyone would post up as "inappropriate" in their circle of friends or family. If any player reports me in-game for calling them a bugger, I'm going to happily laugh in their face because they are being children instead of trying to somehow protect them.

I tsk in your general direction.

[zanzibar]

That isn't a very good solution because anyone who would want to change it would have to individually modify a file to change it themselves. Not everyone will know how to do this and if some people attempt this they may even break some functionality or render their client unusable. This would just present more people in need of technical assistance.

It's the perfect solution because it's easy to modify the file and once you're in you can make any changes you want.  The chat filter can be personally customised to exactly meet your individual requirements.

I don't think it's fair to place the responsibility of protecting your children onto the shoulders of the PS developement team.  They've done a heck of a lot to keep the game kid-safe, and they continue to moderate what happens both in game and out of game as if ten year olds are watching.  Even then, there's the PG warning.  "Bugger", in the context it's being used, is definately G rated.