NPC using an expletive?

[Garile]

Well I watch TV and I agree many words are used there that you might not agree are always apropriate but bugger being one of them?

Its one of those words I imagine the big evil guy in a kiddy show using to atleast give him the impression of actually being somewhat evil.

I also seriously doubt anyone would be offended by the word. It's not like words like that are used often and think anyone who would know that it also has a different meaning would also know it's nearly impossible it is used in that context.

Personally I do agree Karyuu as a Dev might have looked at it more seriously if perhaps it indeed is used differently in other countries specially with so many english speaking countries out there like England, Schotland, Ireland, Canada, Australia, the US and others I'm sure there are. However I also agree fullheartedly with her decicion that anyone playing this game should have the commonsence to know in what context the word is used.

Specially seeing what kind of swearwords are being used in the media on primetime that I am sure most of you will allow your kids to watch by the time they are old enough to play PS this is a rather pointless discusion

[Malfini]

Shakilai for YOU and ME it is ridiculously easy to modify the filter. Not everyone is as computer savvy. Some people will use Windows on their PC everyday and won't even know what Windows is. Believe it or not there are a lot of people like this.

I know there would be plenty of people who would find some way, some how to mess up their client when trying to modify the XML file PlaneShift\data\options\chat_def.xml. They would then either ask for help in the help channel or in the forums.

I think it is fairly safe to assume that most people will not modify their chat files before finding a problem with them anyways. Your solution is even more complicated than the developers globally changing that one word that Raithen says by modifying a NPC dialogue/quest file.

[Karyuu]

(I'm not on the Settings team, Garile, and as such it's not my job to write quest dialogs or check them for approval :} Frankly having our team check every single word just in case somewhere in the world there are people considering it offensive would be a big waste of time - "bugger" was used completely innocently, and validly; it has several definitions. That people choose to see it as vulgar is not our aim, and not our fault. "Get with the times" comes to mind )

Looks like Xordan will be trying to get it changed to appease those with sensitive eyes and ears, so people can relax now. However, don't report players who choose to call you a "bugger" with innocent intentions. That would be a serious waste of GM time and would make me very angry at you kthx.

[Shakilai]

Shakilai for YOU and ME it is ridiculously easy to modify the filter. Not everyone is as computer savvy. Some people will use Windows on their PC everyday and won't even know what Windows is. Believe it or not there are a lot of people like this.

As far as I have seen, these types don't survive well in a game considered by many to still be a "tech demo." If they can't open an XML file in notepad and follow the structure there to add a word to the filter, they're not going to file bug reports, help with technical issues, and etc. In the future I hope adding a word to the filter can be done in-game and with a click of a button, and perhaps this is all we really need - to make the filter that modifiable.

They would then either ask for help in the help channel or in the forums.

I'm not seeing people stepping on newbies asking for help here. You make it sound so horrible

I think it is fairly safe to assume that most people will not modify their chat files before finding a problem with them anyways. Your solution is even more complicated than the developers globally changing that one word that Raithen says by modifying an NPC dialogue/quest file.

Do you expect to get it filtered out of the forum too?

[Malfini]

(I'm not on the Settings team, Garile, and as such it's not my job to write quest dialogs or check them for approval :} Frankly having our team check every single word just in case somewhere in the world there are people considering it offensive would be a big waste of time - "bugger" was used completely innocently, and validly; it has several definitions. That people choose to see it as vulgar is not our aim, and not our fault. "Get with the times" comes to mind )

Looks like Xordan will be trying to get it changed to appease those with sensitive eyes and ears, so people can relax now. However, don't report players who choose to call you a "bugger" with innocent intentions. That would be a serious waste of GM time and would make me very angry at you kthx.

Shakilai, Karyuu already said that Xordan will be trying to get it changed. Why continue to argue then?

[Shakilai]

Because I find the change to be unnecessary and silly Well, and for the sake of the discussion. I am curious as to how far you want to take this: do you want to see "bugger" removed from the game entirely, and have players receive warnings for using that word? Should it go onto the official censor list? Do you want it erradicated from PlaneShift forever?

Genuine questions.

[Malfini]

All I want right now is for Raithen to stop calling everyone a "bugger". 
If he won't stop disrespecting us like that; the least we should be able to do is fight him.

*Edit*
I'm just one of the people who know what "bugger" means. I figured for an international game that it might be best for the NPC's not to call people "buggers".

[zanzibar]

All I want right now is for Raithen to stop calling everyone a "bugger". 
If he won't stop disrespecting us like that; the least we should be able to do is fight him.

So if someone uses an innocent term to call you a nuisance while helping you find work, your reaction is to kill them?  Get help.

[Malfini]

All I want right now is for Raithen to stop calling everyone a "bugger". 
If he won't stop disrespecting us like that; the least we should be able to do is fight him.

So if someone uses an innocent term to call you a nuisance while helping you find work, your reaction is to kill them?  Get help.

Yes Zanzibar I would kill Raithen. I wouldn't kill a person in real life though. In real life I'm also not a Ylian warrior who has killed thousands of monsters either. 

*Edit*

I have already voiced my concerns about the word "bugger". Please read all 7 pages before asking more questions.

[Karyuu]

That says a lot about your character though, that you'd kill someone for a single word that was never meant to offend in the first place. People tend to stay away from individuals like that when they're walking down a street.

[lordraleigh]

... If things continues this way... soon the neocons will complain that Klyros are naked, that Krans have their butts naked and the list will grow enough to make the game development lasts forever. Wonderful how these guys mind about "bugger" but don't mind about diabolis, people roleplaying robbers, thieves, assassins, psychopaths and about the indiscriminate killing of human and sentient NPCs just because they are gladiators or mercenaries.

If you are worried about "bugger" when 10 yrs old boys says "%($@ you", then you should pray not play. It starts from here... Soon female characters will use burgas... human drawings will be forbidden ... and magic will be banished from gameplay as it is considered demonic...  Hope the devs don't waste their precious time with such insignificance... Anyway I thought these kind of people considered RPG satanic...

There are games for children, and this game would get ridiculously simple if it was developed as a game for children. I think in most cases only 14 yrs old or higher may have enough maturity to roleplay a character(and I'm being optimistic). This game is simply too complex for children to waste time to guarantee a "for all ages" rating for it...(Just my opinion... as most of good roleplayers I've seen in game are usually old teenagers(around 16-18) or older ). In my opinion, this game should focus on the adult public, because it is be heavily RP-oriented and youger ones usually prefer less serious MMO(RP?)Gs (And about children seeing the game... There are things on TV much worser than "bugger". One should know about allowing or not to let children see him playing, or watching his favorite channel)

P.S. : I don't intend to offend no one. This is my opinion on the "for all ages" stuff of PS.

[Malfini]

That says a lot about your character though, that you'd kill someone for a single word that was never meant to offend in the first place. People tend to stay away from individuals like that when they're walking down a street.

Karyuu, come on... have you seriously never wanted to kill a NPC in the game? I find that far too hard to believe. To be fair though Malfini helps people a lot. When a NPC calls Malfini a "bugger" he will become offended though since Malfini knows what that means.

[Karyuu]

No, actually my character is more of the sane sort that doesn't feel like killing anyone who throws an insulting word her way. I think you're taking it OOCly.

Moreover, I don't think your character can at all know what the other definition of "bugger" is, since as you have pointed out it has such OOC origins. It's not about being a pacifist - my character is a hunter - but about the difference between killing someone who say, murdered your family, and killing someone who said a single word to you you didn't like. In real life you would pray to God that such a person would get locked away. It's no different in the game.

[Malfini]

No, actually my character is more of the sane sort that doesn't feel like killing anyone who throws an insulting word her way. I think you're taking it OOCly.

So you roleplay differently. Your character sounds more like a pacifist. Congratulations...

[bilbous]

So I guess you won't mind if someone calls you queer? They might mean you are questionable or suspicious or just plain odd. What about gay? Are you a happy fellow? I do not mean to suggest anything about anyone personally, I am just giving examples of innocent words that have similarly unpleasant meanings.
Are these words banned too? I do not know. Certainly there are usages that should be proscribed.

In a heated moment people tend to use the strongest words they think they can get away with. Someone can call me a bugger all they want but if they are someone I feel is antipathetic to me I am going to assume they mean the worst sense of the word knowing all the while that they can claim to mean the least offensive sense of the term to get away with it.

By the way to bug someone is also a slang word a bug is an insect, a noun not a verb

Well casual search doesn't prove or disprove this notion but I think it is probably the correct origin of that meaning of bug.