Metallurgy - Iron stock smelting.

[mage.merlyn]

Hi all,

I've come to something of an impasse I'm afraid.

I have searched the forums using a number of keywords, and spoken to a number of people in game.

I am able to produce Iron Ingots and have completed the Iron Stock "quest" given by Harnquist.

My metallurgy skill is currently 0, though I have purchased training to as high as possible for now, (with no resultant change in level).

The problem is when I place the required number of molten Iron in the 'stock' or 'mold', the following messages are displayed.

"you probably should not leave 10 molten ore here"

 despite the fact that I am using molten Iron not Ore and

"There does not seem to be the right amount to do anything useful"

 yet I am using the exact quantity as per Harnquist's quest instructions, (confirmed by checking game logs).

I don't believe that my skill level is (0) is the problem as one of the players I spoke to ingame of metallurgy level 0 made some Iron stock to prove that it could be done.

It would seem that I am not doing something correctly or there is a prerequisite that I haven't yet met.

Any ideas, thoughts or suggestions would be most welcome.

[Lithox]

Afair one can start casting stock when level 5 in metallurgy is reached.

[mage.merlyn]

Thanks for getting back to me on this.

If you're right then the person I spoke to in game must have been pulling my leg!

I checked the game log and they definitely told me they were level 0.

One way or the other I'll need to practise the skill more, though I recall reading in a thread somewhere that melting ore and casting ingots doesn't count towards building experience for metallurgy.

It's just a little frustrating at the moment as I've spent a good deal of time both in game (talking to others) and out of game (browsing the forum).

I appreciate that crafting, is in an ongoing state of development; as is the game for that matter. But some documentation would be useful as the advice and information in game and the forums on this topic is quite vague and often ambiguous.

Sorry about the rant, I do appreciate your feedback.

Cheers.

[LARAGORN]

A few things have changed recently(I'm not sure exactly what), and since the release of the latest client, there have been some problems with the whole system. I know the Dev's have been working on it but i'm not sure if they have got the major bugs out yet.

I know this wasnt very helpful, but hopfully you will get a response from an experienced active Metalurgist.

You might want to read this

[Zan]

I've been able to cast iron stocks at lvl 0 already .. unless those changes were very very recent, that should still be possible.

Did you check to have the right thing in 'mind'?

[Goldir]

I know this has been posted many a time before, but maybe if we reiterate, then when people search, like you did, they will get a hit on it and get the answer they need. 

For Smelting the person attempting to craft must have Three things: 
1. Must have Training in Metallurgy from a trainer.
    a. From lvl 0 - 4 a person can melt certain ores, and will receive experience for doing so. This person cannot make stock yet.
    b. From lvl 5+ a person can cast Stock and Ingots, but will receive less experience or none at all for melting ore/ingots/stock
2. Must have the appropriate discipline in mind
    a. The person must have accomplished certain tasks/acquired certain items in order to teach them how to craft. 
    b. In order to have the best experience, it is recommended that the person earn these things themselves, rather than purchasing them
3. Must have raw Materials
    a. Currently workable ore (that I know of) includes Iron, Tin, Zinc, Silver, and Coal. Platinum was all "Mined Out" and Gold cannot be melted yet.
    b. Different Materials can be combined to make new materials, but those formulas and combinations must be discovered on your own

Remember that this system is under constant modification/improvement, so the rules may change in the future.  Last time my Metallurgy level was below 5, making ingots was not in the cards.  The standard practice was to melt lots and lots and lots of ore, and basically sell it or throw it away, because once it was melted, it was useless for other things, like combinations.  Not sure what it is like now.

OR

A person can team up with someone that wants to gain experience that is above level 5 and you can have an Apprentice/Journeyman relationship. One person melts the ore for exp.  The other person casts the molten ore into ingots.  This actually can work out pretty nicely, as Ingots and Stock are worth more than their components in the raw form. 

Me, I just want to be able to cast my leftover lump of molten gold from July into an ingot.  I think it would look purty as a souvenir

Edit!!! I just read the link from Laragorn, so some of the info I just posted may be invalid.  Take a few weeks off work and it all goes to pot...

Keywords: Craft, Crafting, Metallurgy, Metalurgy, Iron, Molten, Ore, Zinc, Tin, Silver, Platinum, Moltin, Blacksmithing, Ingot, Ingots, Stock, Stocks

[blokhed]

greetz,

@ Goldir, you've covered it pretty well. But you might like to know that stock can be made at level 0. Done it myself!

A guide like that ought to be stickied though to save people from doing heaps of searches.

@ Merliam, mate as far as keeping things in mind means you've got to stick the book in your mind slot. Go figure!

It's bizzare that you have to put a book in 'your mind', thats the way it is.

good luck.

[themule]

For Smelting the person attempting to craft must have Three things: 
1. Must have Training in Metallurgy from a trainer.
    a. From lvl 0 - 4 a person can melt certain ores, and will receive experience for doing so. This person cannot make stock yet.

I've been told no experience is given now, no matter what level you are.

    b. From lvl 5+ a person can cast Stock and Ingots, but will receive less experience or none at all for melting ore/ingots/stock

I've been told that now you can cast ingots at level 0, and you get no experience.
You can cast stock at level 0, and that gives you experience.
What you can't do at level 0, is combining.
Combining (at level 5) gives you experience (tried it myself).

So it seems that now you get experience only by casting stock or by combining ore. That is assuming they haven't introduced other changes I'm not aware of (like combining at the stock casting).

2. Must have the appropriate discipline in mind
    a. The person must have accomplished certain tasks/acquired certain items in order to teach them how to craft. 
    b. In order to have the best experience, it is recommended that the person earn these things themselves, rather than purchasing them
3. Must have raw Materials
    a. Currently workable ore (that I know of) includes Iron, Tin, Zinc, Silver, and Coal. Platinum was all "Mined Out" and Gold cannot be melted yet.
    b. Different Materials can be combined to make new materials, but those formulas and combinations must be discovered on your own

AFAIK, nothing changed here.

Remember that this system is under constant modification/improvement, so the rules may change in the future.

The future is now

@blokhed

A guide like that ought to be stickied though to save people from doing heaps of searches.

I disagree. The old system was explained to me in details by a good and patient soul, in game. This is the kind of knowledge you want to learn in game, not on forums.

I think on forums (not counting the RP-related topics) you should find only info about how to run the game, game controls, and such. That is, help for players. But no help for characters: no maps, no recipes of metallurgy, no guides about where to find items, ... you get the idea.

In other words, anything that you could ask in game, IC, you should ask in game, IC.

[mage.merlyn]

To all who have replied thankyou.

For Goldir, that is the most comprehensive round up of the skill that I have seen anywhere.

I need to say that I had asked quite a few people ingame as I prefer to do this as it provides opportunities to role play. I search the forums usually as a last resort.

In fact the problem was recently resolved ingame, (more on that later).

I must admit though that there are a number of the keywords that you suggested that I didn't use. Simply because they didn't relate directly to my enquiry, ie smelting/smithing Iron stock.

Thankyou the mule for clarifying those few points, I can now confirm that stock production can be achieved at level 0.

I would like to mention however most of the knowledge posted here I was able to get ingame ... eventually, including the solution, to which Goldir also eluded.

And now for the actual solution to the problem. I continued asking in game and after many enquiries a very helpful person through skillful roleplay indirectly mentioned the need to place the 'skill' book in mind. Hey presto problem solved!

I have some thoughts on this 'method', and to be kind I find it totally counterintuitive.

In all the roleplays that I have experienced knowledge & skills, are either gained through practical training, (payed for or otherwise) and or reading/studying (scrolls, books...) and then further developed through practice or repeated use (experience). There have also been instances where knowledge/skills have been passed on as a reward for services rendered, or completion of a task/quest.

Granted that Planeshift incorporates each of these in some form or other. But I've never encoutered this 'book in mind' thing before. Which I must say is why it never occurred to me.

After some thought, I have considered that perhaps it is a metaphor for 'keeping in mind' the training that has been received when performing a task.

On the other hand placing a book in a mind 'slot' also brings to mind the 'image' of placing a game cartridge into an old style console, without which the game cannot be played, or in this case the task cannot be achieved.

Getting back to other roleplays, once the skill is learned the knowledge 'stays' with you, all that is left is to apply it, in much the same way that we learn in normal life.

To that end, the only point that I agree with blokhed on is this method is just bizarre.

On a final and I hope positive note, in all other aspects the manner in which crafting is developing promises to be comprehensive, interesting and very worthwhile.

I'll shut up now.

Cheers.

[Jeraphon]

I'm hoping that's resolved soon. It doesn't seem right to place one piece of molten iron into a stock casing and get an ingot while receiving no experience, but doing the same thing with TEN pieces and getting a stock gets you experience.

[Mordaan]

I'm hoping that's resolved soon. It doesn't seem right to place one piece of molten iron into a stock casing and get an ingot while receiving no experience, but doing the same thing with TEN pieces and getting a stock gets you experience.

Yeah, and hopefully it will be balanced with other things.  It doesn't seem right that you can spend all day melting and cooling to gain the same amount of PP you can get in 30 seconds taking on a few rogues.