You seem to be missing my point entirely, not even reading my posts even (not that I'm reading most of yours as they're largely irrelevant). The number of deaths during Al-Anfal was greater than the number of people being killed in Dafur now. We're in exactly the same situation as we were before the gulf war. I never mentioned economic conditions or anything like that so I don't know why you brought that into it. All I am saying is that if we go into Sudan, we'll eventually have the same problems we have in Iraq now and people will whine. I don't see why you think the Janjaweed will suddenly just give up. If we do it properly (unlike the gulf war where the UN stopped us) then things might end up a bit different, but the fighting won't stop.
As for the economic conditions that Datruth mentioned, I dont think they were a direct response to your post Xordan. But to me they seemed relevant. And if you looked a little closer and actually gave up a little of your time for the common courtesy of reading his posts before dismissing them you would have seen that the first word he uses actually makes it clear it is not a direct response to your posts so I dont see where your comment:
I never mentioned economic conditions or anything like that so I don't know why you brought that into it
He didnt once say that you did mention it.
Thank you idoru, exactly the sentiments i would have said, and i read his posts.
The least he could do is read mine.
I was speaking to Isra when i mentioned the Economic status of both countries.
I was explaining that the reason the Iraqi people are mad at us is WE destroyed their country.
Not Saddam, but us, and we killed about as many innocent people.
"Not even, reading your post even"
Too many evens in there Xordan, sounds odd
How would you know if i read your post? You'd have to be here.
For the record i did read it.
Your posts said this: "Yeah right, you obviously underestimate these people. This is exactly what we thought we needed to do in Iraq and it failed for the same reasons it'd fail in Sudan."
I read that as the theme of your post.
And i responded to it's theme, showing that Iraq and Sudan are very much different.
And dismissing their economies, as not impacting their futures, would make an economist faint, they might say that's the most important factor.
Your original thread insinuated the same thing xordan:
What's happening in Darfur now isn't much different to what happened in Iraq (to the Kurds as one example) pre-invasion. If the USA invaded Sudan to stop this, we'd have the same situation as we have in Iraq now and people would be whining just as much.
We would not have the same situation.
Al-qaeda and insurgents, Backed by Iran, that's why they keep killing U.S troops.
Janjaweed, Destruction of governement, WHo would back them?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now to address what you really meant, my Iraq war tirade.
You said this:
Sounds like you read/watch/listen to very biased left-wing media Smiley
Try reading up on the Al-Anfal Campaign, genocide against the Kurds in Iraq. Tens of thousands were slaughtered by Saddam for no reason other than being Kurds.
* destroyed about 4,000 villages in Iraqi Kurdistan [4]
* destroyed 1,754 schools, 270 hospitals, 2,450 mosques, 27 churches[5]
* wiped out around 90% of Kurdish villages in targeted areas.[6]
You were replying to my post, which theme was this:
Again unlike IRaq, where things are still NOT anywhere near the quality of pre war.
People still don't have water and power in lots of areas and the rate of civilian deaths is unbelievable.
Iraq is not sudan, and i can't compare the two, not on any level.
You can blame the Iraq disaster on Bush and Blairs uneeded war, and destabalization of the country.
You were saying:
Hey sadam killed the KurdsHow dare you say that's not a good reason for war.
I said....
Guess what.
It's not a good reason for war.[insert long post here with all evidence]
Thank you for not replying to [long post here with all evidence]
Thank you for not reading all of [long post here with all evidence]
Your sentiments will be met equally.
Sudan is a good reason for war.[insert economic post here and 10,000 dead each month]
[insert pre war conditions of Sudan]
[insert witty joke about how sudan can't get any worse]
Pre war sudan... is bad... really bad... how in the world.. could it get worse?
So now you see how the posts came together and why i wrote what i did.
You can use the information i provided to make
informative decisions about the Sudan's future.
Or you can continue to say, Sudan=Iraq, with zero facts and evidence.
Oh and your kurdish deaths, again, not a good reason for war with Iraq, that horse has been beaten to death.
~~Datruth
EDIT:
Response to Isra:
But the answer is not "US military to the rescue" . The answer is not another war .
Another war against some country that can`t defend it`s self . Stop the desaster curently going on there and start another one . Cause yet another increase in world wide extremism and anti-american feelings .
The only way to stop this kind of things imho is to educate people and change the way they relate to eachother . Not by war!!
Your sentiments, as i read them were:
Don't have a war, your going to start another problem.
I ask for proof where we helped a country like Sudan, and it collapsed?
Where a civil war was going on,
we stopped it, and the people fought us to death?
When did we ever go through that?
Germany anyone? That was a success. Japan? Yes success as well. Poland? Yes we did well there too.
No civil wars there, but we had wars with them, and they are successes today thanks to U.S intervention.
We owe japan more money than every other nation, but china.
I hate to mention this, but Quwait owes us a bit too
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I like how you said, education is the key.
Long term key yes, short term no.
Education takes Decades, it could take a Century before the people are all getting food and water and have time for eduction.
Also you can't have education without your Needs, i refer to evidence of that thanks to Maslow:
Remember the 5 steps to Human Actualization
Also known as Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs:
Education is subservient to food, shelter, water, and safety.
Right now... They have very little food, water, shelter, and no safety.
Education is not the key, education comes when Safety, water, food, and shelter have been provided.
You need to fill up your NEEDS(safety, food, shelter, water) before you can have your wants(education).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So isra, i ask you, i plead with you my friend....
What do you want us to do, you are the head of any government you want, be it the U.S if you so wish.
What should be done?
Education? Impossible, as i've already mentioned.
What would you propose?
HOW would you bring stability?
I now yield to you. I'd like to hear Xordan's idea, if he has one, maybe he can stabilize the region without military intervention.
For me, i say, if at any time there was a need for war... this is the time.
~~Datruth.... (my fingers are dying..lol
) {My 777th post, one that i'm very fond of i must say!!
}
