Author Topic: Monism or Duelism  (Read 4734 times)

Garile

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2007, 01:15:16 am »
Well if I read the posts the most logical solution I think of, that might sound rather artificial, would be that we as "heroes"go to the deathrealm and take our bodies with us by the power of the deathgod or something, but seeing peasants go to another place they don't take their bodies with them.

As for the bodies restoring injuries wouldn't that be rather obvious? I mean you did die. Without restoring health you would simply die again right after spawning.
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hitancrias

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2007, 02:46:41 am »
As it is now, it's impossible for me to make sense of the DR roleplay wise, and I don't see a way how a deathrealm could ever work. If someone dies, should we be shocked? If someone returnes from the death, should we be amazed? If so, then how often should we be shocked or amazed? Even if only heroes are supposed to be able to escape the DR, in practice there always will be so many "heroes" that it will be impossible to keep acting like it's something rare. Should we talk about every regular player as if it was a mystical genius who has come back from the deathrealm over ten times?
Being able to take your stuff to the deathrealm and sell it there and bring back the trias makes it even stranger.

I understand that the deathrealm is planned to become much larger, to become a fully fledged alternative world in which "evil" characters could reside. However, I don't see how that would change anything though. There will always be people, who want to get back to their friends in the world of the living as soon as possible. If we would make the DR very big, and escaping it very time consuming, the positive thing would be that it would make people less riskless and make dying and returning from the death less common. On the flip side, this is a game, besides realistic it also has to be fun. IMO keeping people for a longer period of time in places where they don't want to be simply insn't fun. Especially for new players who tend to die more often because they yet have to find the limits of what their character can handle, and are usually more clumsy with falling from steep slopes.

Right now, new players easily can spend two hours in the DR to find the exit from a place where they don't chose to be in the first place. Some are even making new chars each time they die. If you consider that, we can only guess how many new players will even stop playing PS because of the deathrealm if it becomes much larger.

My suggestion would be to change the deathrealm into a coma-realm. People who "die" don't die but get into a coma instead, and have to fight a mental battle which is finding the exit of the coma-realm. When you find the exit, you should get back to the place where you "died", rather then to a fixed spawn point. Everything done and said in the coma-realm should be forgotten by the char, and to other characters it would be like you didn't even die but just escaped death by an inch. We are all heroes, we don't ever die, but our chars don't know that on before hand and should fear death in a normal way. More or less like movie heroes do. This system also leaves possibilities for others to cast spells on the "death" body, either to bring it back to life instantly with a minimum amount of hps, or to give him more strength so he can progress through the deathrealm with more speed or something like that. That way it can be RPd as if your life has been saved by a friend, which is fun.

The contradiction Zanzibar found gives me the feeling that the devs don't have a detailed, flashed out idea about what the DR should become and how it should work. I hope they find a creative solution.
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emeraldfool

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2007, 03:16:38 am »
Another interesting fact is that all the NPCs in the Death Realm refer to you as "Spirit", (I forget the exact phrasing, but I definately remember that...) which would imply that you are bodiless... (Unless 'spirit', in this sense, is just a word for someone who has died, and not an actual incoporeal person)

So which is it? Does the body travel to the death realm or is it disposed of in chutes?

It could be that the body is disposed, and then disappears some days later. I don't see why this can't be the case when you mix the two concepts together :] I think this may be a question for the QA though, just to be sure.

Not to be picky, but doesn't that kinda defy the law of thermodynamics (matter cannot be created or destroyed)? Unless the body turned into vapour, and then the vapour somehow managed to re-form back into a body at your spawn-point with all your items intact...



Personally, I like Hitman's idea a lot. The coma thing would be more interesting, less cliched and make a LOT more sense.
Maybe being exposed to the constant, energizing light of the Azure Sun (which is connected to the Crystal Way anyway) provides all us 'heroes' with faster healing, which would explain why a) we regain HP so fast, and b) why it's nearly impossible to kill us permanently.

The 'coming back to life' thing is gigantically flawed, and not interesting or innovative enough to compensate...

Araye

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2007, 03:44:58 am »
We best not open the "doesn't that defy" box.   ;D


zanzibar

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2007, 07:02:28 am »
Another interesting fact is that all the NPCs in the Death Realm refer to you as "Spirit", (I forget the exact phrasing, but I definately remember that...) which would imply that you are bodiless... (Unless 'spirit', in this sense, is just a word for someone who has died, and not an actual incoporeal person)


Not necessarily.  Some people think of other human beings as the spirit that represents their conciousness instead of the bodies which give them physical form.  For instance, I am talking to your spirit, not to your body, even though it is your body that is infront of me.
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bilbous

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2007, 07:53:01 am »
I thought I read somewhere that the death realm was an actual place, the lowest level under the inhabitable levels. So when you die and get thrown down the well you eventually end up in the DR. If this was true it could be a force of will to reattach you spirit to your body instead of passing on. I don't know where I might have seen this, perhaps it was on the wiki or something. This is the general impression I had. This is why burial is a capital offense, if your body never makes it to the DR you cannot reclaim it and return to life or is that another misapprehension?

zanzibar

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2007, 08:37:05 am »
I thought I read somewhere that the death realm was an actual place, the lowest level under the inhabitable levels.

Try to find a source for that.  From the concept drawings I've seen, what's under the lowest level is just an empty cavern.  An incredibly huge cavern, but still a cavern.
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Narure

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2007, 01:51:25 pm »
Be that as it may, bilbous' idea makes more sense than the bunch of contradicting ones floating about at the moment.

bilbous

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2007, 05:50:43 pm »
I don't know it might have even been on these forums somewhere but I do not have time to try and track it down. I don't think it is an original idea from me but if it is PS is welcome to it.

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2007, 07:57:24 pm »
I thought I read somewhere that the death realm was an actual place, the lowest level under the inhabitable levels. So when you die and get thrown down the well you eventually end up in the DR. If this was true it could be a force of will to reattach you spirit to your body instead of passing on. I don't know where I might have seen this, perhaps it was on the wiki or something. This is the general impression I had. This is why burial is a capital offense, if your body never makes it to the DR you cannot reclaim it and return to life or is that another misapprehension?

That is actually the best explanation for the Death Realm I heard so far.

You die and remain inside your body, unable to do a thing of course. People come and toss your body down the burial wells which lets it end up in a dark place where a Death Guardian will regenerate your body and revives you. Luckily a one way portal to the surface of Yliakum exists somewhere in that Death Realm.

Works for me.
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Ishtar2

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2007, 01:20:33 am »
I thought I read somewhere that the death realm was an actual place, the lowest level under the inhabitable levels. So when you die and get thrown down the well you eventually end up in the DR. If this was true it could be a force of will to reattach you spirit to your body instead of passing on. I don't know where I might have seen this, perhaps it was on the wiki or something. This is the general impression I had. This is why burial is a capital offense, if your body never makes it to the DR you cannot reclaim it and return to life or is that another misapprehension?

That is actually the best explanation for the Death Realm I heard so far.

You die and remain inside your body, unable to do a thing of course. People come and toss your body down the burial wells which lets it end up in a dark place where a Death Guardian will regenerate your body and revives you. Luckily a one way portal to the surface of Yliakum exists somewhere in that Death Realm.

Works for me.

Plus it saves the developers from designing the death god we know nothing about.
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Karyuu

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2007, 01:41:18 am »
What do you mean, saves? All that work for nothing now..? :P
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Ishtar2

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2007, 03:39:29 am »
What do you mean, saves? All that work for nothing now..? :P

No offence, but you did work?  This entire thread was clearing up the developers' inconsistancies on the death realm.  ;)

And that's a bad area to be inconsistant at...





Dead Person:  So.... this is the Death Realm.  Yikes! These rocks are hot!

Death Guardian:  Uhh.... You're a spirit, you can't feel pain.

Dead Person: Oh, so I do not exist in the physical realm.

Death Guardian:  Right.  I'll buy your things now.

Dead Person: But how can I sell you stuff if I have no body?

Guardian:  Uhhh...  I don't know.... Maybe your things are physical but your body's a spirit.   Wait, no, that wouldn't work...  maybe you are a physical being.  But I know that your body's been dumped down a chute.... 

Person: Still don't have an answer...

Guardian:  I DON'T KNOW!  BLAME THE DEVELOPERS!
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Karyuu

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Re: Monism or Duelism
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2007, 03:43:19 am »
I don't think there are as many inconsistencies as you make it out to be - just not everything has a public answer yet, and if there are questions, they belong in the Q&A :]

Darkmoon has spent a lot of time working on the DR as the Settings team leader.
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