Tolol's pain with the Steel-Market and Economy

[Tolol]

Hello my fellow-citizen,

So finally the time has come to write my first posting on this forums.

Believe it I tried to read anything I could find about this issue but there was not a single answer that I found was satisfiying what I am about to ask/to tell.

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I tried to split this in IC and OOC issues, but sorry ... for me as a not really good RPer it is even harder to make a difference between In or out of Character while writing this.
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Let's talk about economy.

I (and I'm not alone with this) want to establish somekind of a working steel-market in Yliakum, but it's a pain in the neck to find any help or even employees with that.

I calculated a bit around for myself and found out that the maximum price you can get for a steel stock is 2000 Tria (and that's a good price already, you usally get less than 1000 Tria for it.)

So let's start with going to the mine ... To mine the iron and the coal for 4 steel-stock takes me about 40 minutes (mining lvl20) ... further 10 minutes for the run and melting ... making the stock.

Ok ... further with this example - If I take this 50 minutes as an average count.

50 minutes making steel stock - earns 8000 Tria (in best case)
50 minutes mining gold (with my level, my time and my strength) is about 18.000 Tria (in any case)

But don't get me wrong - It's not all about the money I earn - read carefully

Let's say I would like to employ a miner
I pay myself 20% for my melting and stock making and selling the stock - 1600 Tria

My miner would have to bring me not less than 40 ore/lump for it (for 6400 Tria) - that would be a maximum of 160 Tria for the same work he does in the gold mine and where he gets 240 Tria for. (in this example 9600 Tria instead of 6400)

Well, some of you might say - "sounds like a good relation, gold is harder to mine than iron and coal" - but there is the next point, I digged it all and the pain is ... the hardest to mine is coal, then iron and gold is the easiest. So what ?

And this is the reason, why miners I ask for help, I catch a lot of pytiyng looks from and they return to the gold-mine.

Well, how can this be solved ?

I'm sure I would be killed if I would propose to decrease the gold-price down to I would say 100 Tria per Ore.

But I'm sure that would be easier than increasing the price for steel-stock.

Another point would be to make gold harder to find ... (another reason for me beeing killed by a crowd of miners)



Well, I am not really sure if this can help or even a solution will be found with this post ... but to be sure ... after three hours of mining, running, melting ... etc. ... I just had to say it !

Thank you for listening to my awful grammar and spelling.

Yours

Tolol

[Narure]

But then out of that you can make a 300/300 weapon. Surely then you can give a little more money to the miners for their hard work after you sell that?

[LARAGORN]

Good points for your first post Tolol
I agree the whole economic structure needs a lot of tweeking.
Making gold harder to mine is definatly a good start on making the system more realistic. It is getting harder and harder to find apprentices in metalurgy with the way the PP are set up now, without even mentioning the almost slave labour wages to be made.

A rethink on the whole system is deffinatly a good idea.

[Tolol]

Hi Narure,

you're right so far ... but I don't want to craft the weapon I want to make the steel, so the weapon-makers should take your thought to pay more for the steel ... right ?

Tolol

[Nikodemus]

Tolol, amaizing post, especially as it is first. I couldn't agree with you more. It is rare event, but i agree with 100% what you wrote.
concluding:
-coal easier to dig than iron
-gold harder to mine than iron
-price for gold should drop to 100 tria or below.

[LARAGORN]

Tolol, amaizing post, especially as it is first. I couldn't agree with you more. It is rare event, but i agree with 100% what you wrote.
concluding:
-coal easier to dig than iron
-gold harder to mine than iron
-price for gold should drop to 100 tria or below.

I dont agree with you here
If you make gold harder to mine, then leave the value as is.
If gold stays as an easy to get item, then lower the value.
you cant do both.

[Nikodemus]

ok, then easy ming stays and the price drop to 10 per ore, ok? Whats wrong, this time i want to lower only one factor.
The fact often few factors are lowered at once doesn't mean it is too much.
I can do both and i rather do both rather than one, but extreme.

[LARAGORN]

Realisticly Gold is supposed to be a precious metal, lowering the value and the availability totaly negates its worth.
Iron and coal should be much easier to mine(especialy coal) to reflect their value and aplication.
With the elimination of platinum, Gold has become the most valuble ore and should be treated as such. It shouldnt be just another ore that is easier to mine than the almost worthless coal. I am sure or at least I hope the DEV's are aware of the imbalances in the whole minning metalurgy systems in place. There are many things that need to be addressed and I dont know where these rank on the 'to do' list, we can only voice our oppinion and see what they decide to impliment or change.

[Natrina]

 I agree with Laragorn. Lowering the price of gold is not the thing to do as it drives from reality. The gold mine should simply be "relocated" (as in deleted and another one be opened somewhere else) to a more far away and hidden place and another metal, such as silver or copper, should be put in place. The gold does set off the whole economy, but I'd suppose the devs are already aware of that.

[bilbous]

I haven't crafted in a while but do you still make more money selling ingots than stock? I suppose you are really talking about the player-player sales and not player-npc sales.

The gold mine should be limited, perhaps a per character weekly limit on what can be mined.

[Nikodemus]

Relocation, probably in the region of BD is best idea and i still don't agree with what you are trying to prove

With the elimination of platinum, Gold has become the most valuble ore and should be treated as such. It shouldnt be just another ore that is easier to mine than the almost worthless coal.

Did you know that platinum was worth 12 tria before it was removed?
Do you think that 100 tria for, what is over 16 times more expensive than iron ore sounds like just another ore?
Did you know that in RL it are the ingots which are far more expensive than iron? It is because gold ingots in the wanted purity are far harder to acquire than iron ingots. Thats why ore/ingot proce ratio is higher for gold comparing to iron. Another reason why gold ore shouldn't be as expensive as it is commonly wanted. And near this it should be harder to mine than iron. Unless you really want it to cost 10tria if you want to keep it easy to mine.

Do i get impression that people just want to have easy way of making money?

[Sunshine]

Hi !

Gold is definitively much too easy to mine. Yesterday it took me 12 tries to dig 4 lumps of gold ore - and my character is level 1 in mining !

cu

Sunshine

[LARAGORN]

Relocation, probably in the region of BD is best idea and i still don't agree with what you are trying to prove

With the elimination of platinum, Gold has become the most valuble ore and should be treated as such. It shouldnt be just another ore that is easier to mine than the almost worthless coal.

Did you know that platinum was worth 12 tria before it was removed?
Do you think that 100 tria for, what is over 16 times more expensive than iron ore sounds like just another ore?
Did you know that in RL it are the ingots which are far more expensive than iron? It is because gold ingots in the wanted purity are far harder to acquire than iron ingots. Thats why ore/ingot proce ratio is higher for gold comparing to iron. Another reason why gold ore shouldn't be as expensive as it is commonly wanted. And near this it should be harder to mine than iron. Unless you really want it to cost 10tria if you want to keep it easy to mine.

Do i get impression that people just want to have easy way of making money?

12 tria for platinum?
what game where you playing?
What posts are you reading? where did I say I was looking for the easy way out? and where did I say I want to keep it easy to mine?
I think you need to reread the statement you quoted, I think you misunderstood. I am objecting the fact gold is easier to mine than coal.

[Nikodemus]

Alright, you don't want the gold to be easy to mine afterall. But the rest is correct.
been playing the same game as you and 12 tria is price which was. Since you said nothing what would expand it, this is a fact.
And this what i'm looking in your post, but can't find are some RL reasons. In-game reasons, based on prices/proportions/quantities in complete chaos can't stand as a reason. Besides RL is what is game is based on, like any other game BTW.

[LARAGORN]

Before Plat was removed it was worth 360 tria per ore, thats why it was so popular and easy to get rich quick, it was removed to stop the higher prices it induced.


http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26387.msg297219#msg297219


Edit : My figures were off sory, I went to my logs for verification;
(20:32:01) >You started trading with Harnquist.
(20:32:18) >You sold 16 Platinum Ore for 40 Circles, 4 Octas and 4 Hexas a total of 10240 Trias.

10240 divided by 16 = 640

as you can see it was a little more than 12 tria each.