Author Topic: Reality and Proof  (Read 6078 times)

bilbous

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Re: Reality and Proof
« Reply #120 on: January 18, 2007, 04:47:12 pm »
Hey there eldoth, watch your red-shift..you might phase into the ultraviolet! Take care not to get too close to that gravity lens or your head might swell!

eldoth_terevan

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Re: Reality and Proof
« Reply #121 on: January 18, 2007, 06:46:34 pm »
Eldoth winks, "Too late!"  :D

Eldoths head being to streched and englongated as he is sucked down the iridescent gravity well of a million scintillating colors to the Hell of Unrepentant Rationalists.

"Oh, heya Zanz, what are ya doing ...?"
« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 07:06:00 pm by eldoth_terevan »

Datruth

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Re: Reality and Proof
« Reply #122 on: January 18, 2007, 09:57:05 pm »
The universe is not limited, man's perception of the universe is limited. Solipsism is egocentrism become rationalization, not reason. No different than ancient people's belief that the universe revolved around them.

Hisenberg's Uncertainty Principle has everything to do with the observation and measurement of particles in applied quantum mechanics, and nothing to do with philosophy.

If you have a problem with that statement then actually study Hisenberg's work, a basic reading in the history of science by Sagan, various published applications of quantum theory models by damn near everybody from Einstein to Hawking, and follow it up with the lectures of Richard Feynman.

The actuality of conditions that cause light to be changed by materials in the world has nothing to do with you perceiving it or not. This is measureable, it is demonstrable, it is elementary.

Eldoth cracks a beer, puts down the spectroscope, and goes back to measuring stellar parallax on his spiffy new theodolite. He does not bow, as he can take no credit for any of this and would be mortified to do so.

If man's perception of the universe is limited, how do you know the universe isn't limited?
Your own perception says so.
You cannot tell me the universe, is absolute, in any sense.

Let's define that term, absolute:
Not constrained by, Time, matter, or space.

Or:
free from restriction or limitation; not limited in any way:
b.   something that is independent of some or all relations.
c.   something that is perfect or complete.

~~~~~~~~~~
Now let's define some of your terms, so i can try and break down what you said, being as i didn't understand your second sentance:

Solipsism:
Philosophy. the theory that only the self exists, or can be proved to exist.

egocentrism:
having or regarding the self or the individual as the center of all things

rationalization
to ascribe (one's acts, opinions, etc.) to causes that superficially seem reasonable and valid but that actually are unrelated to the true, possibly unconscious and often less creditable or agreeable causes.

Reason:
sound judgment; good sense.
to think or argue in a logical manner.

Let's look at your sentance again now:
Quote
Solipsism is egocentrism become rationalization, not reason.

The theory, that only the self exists, is regarding the self as the center of everything, become rationalization (i still don't understand that)
not sound judgement and good sense.

Even when broken down into its simplest parts, i don't get it...
I guess you can restate, hopefully in another, more coherent, manner.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Then you go on saying, the Uncertainty Principle, has nothing to do with philosophy, and everything to do with observation.
What people choose to add to philosophy, is their choice, you can't exclude Hisenberg's findings, saying they were just observation.
You never know if something has a bigger meaning.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Case in point, you can't say, the universe is absolute, when our perception of it is limited.
We can't know anything absolutely.
That's why color exists.
Quote
So working off the framework that nothing is absolute, not anything we percieve anyways, i deduced color must exist.

Because, even though color is inherently faulty, by only existing in our minds, so is every other object deduced by us in this world.

Basically, drunk man's talk, we have to let color join our group, because the same fault he has, is had by everything we observe.

So it only exists in our brains.
Doesn't everything?
We know nothing absolutely.

And that was my point

So why not add color, to the millions of other things we percieve, but don't know exist absolutely.
Wouldn't it be unfair to exclude it, and say it's only the workings of the mind, When EVERYTHING is the workings of the mind.

~~Datruth
« Last Edit: January 18, 2007, 10:00:20 pm by Datruth »
Truth To Disbelief

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eldoth_terevan

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Re: Reality and Proof
« Reply #123 on: January 19, 2007, 12:52:58 am »
Quote
Even when broken down into its simplest parts, i don't get it...

You are correct.