Magic Staffs - which weapon skill/category exactly?

[Mishen]

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There are quite a few posts mentioning staffs or magic staffs in almost any section of the forum, including fan art that involves staffs. There is even this quote by Karyuu in one thread:

We don't have any staffs or sticks at the moment, but all sorts of things will be available in the future for us to play with

Question: What weapon skill/category does a magic staff belong in?

If you look at this page in the official Player Guide under Weapons Skills

http://www.planeshift.it/guide/en/guide-skills.html

You'll see that a staff isn't listed under any of them.

You might try and generalize and assume "Maces & Hammers" because of reference to "all around blunt weapons" or you might assume "Polearms & Spear". The problem is that there are all kinds of staffs - from a blunt one that might end with a crystal on its end or a spiky one that almost looks like a spear and can do serious piercing damage.

I know that staffs are not implemented yet. However, what Weapons Skill should one train if they plan to use a Magic Staff in the future, once they are available? What is the official category for them?

[Nurahk]

I'd be surprised if there was one.  Would be interesting if you had to train both "Mace & Hammer" and "Polearm & Spear".

[Mishen]

I have considered the possibility that there may be no category for them under the official Weapons Skills. But then, magic users can still use staffs in close combat quite effectively, in which case a question arises - what is the damage and ability to strike going to be based on?

As for requiring two different weapons skills - seems like a rather inefficient time-sink, having to master two different skills just to be good with one, unless using a staff automatically increases both skills. The point is if I wanted to be good with staffs, I'd practice with staffs instead of swinging maces and hammers all day and thrusting polearms and spears the next.

Almost looks like a new weapons category just for staffs is necessary.

[Nurahk]

I believe it is one of those things that we will have to wait to see what happens.

[Narure]

Forgive my ignorance but what would be the use of "magic staffs"?

[Mishen]

Forgive my ignorance but what would be the use of "magic staffs"?

Bonuses to magic ways, spell power, casting speed, mana pool, close combat when a ranged magic attack is not an option, and anything else associated with magic, and would most likely require certain levels in different magic ways to use them. Oh, and, of course, killer looks! 

I guess we will have to see then.

[Narure]

maybe i could see how plonking a crystal on the end of a staff might inprove the power of some specific spells but surly it would make things slower and how on earth would having a stick help mana?

[Mishen]

Make which things slower? If a staff is designed to improve casting speed, maybe even range of the spells themselves, it does not have to be slower. Why wouldn't it help mana, if a particular staff is designed to help mana or does so because of its origins? That's why it's called "magic" in the first place. It doesn't have to be "all-in-one". Some staffs might help mana, others with something else.

[Pizzasgood]

That crystal would also do a number on my head if I ticked the wielder off when he was low on mana.
It could also aid endurance, for those long travels (using it as a walking-stick).

A big crystal would make the sticky heavier and slower to swing, but that is irrelevant to the magic.  A staff is not a wand.  You channel the magic through it to amplify or focus it, not wave it to shoot it out.

How it could help mana is if you could store the mana in a crystal/orb, like an extra battery.  While it's charged, you could use it as a lens to focus magic, and it could have all kinds of crazy effects.  If you start running low, you could opt to drain the crystal and have more mana, but then the fancy effects would be lost until you recharge it.

Before one of the glyph-crazed monkeys objects, the big crystal providing us light is not a glyph.  So the possibility for magic to be stored or modified without glyphs does exist.  Besides, Laanx wants mastery over the crystal and it's power, ignoring Talad and his glyphs.  So I'd say these are possible.  Maybe you couldn't cast a spell with just a staff, but it could certainly enhance it or do other things.

It could be made from a stick that had one of those "natural" glyphs forum upon/within it, and maybe a fallen piece of the crystal attached.  Or it could just be "enhanced" by a spell from a more powerful mage.  Yes, that means it could slowly drain over time.  Don't swords already do that though?  Same idea.  To repair it though, you'd have to cast a powerful and lengthy spell, that would completely drain you for several hours or days.  Cool things come at a cost.

[emeraldfool]

maybe i could see how plonking a crystal on the end of a staff might inprove the power of some specific spells but surly it would make things slower and how on earth would having a stick help mana?

slower? not sure what that means, but as for mana - I'm sure a crystal could provide some nice storage.



Anyway, I was thinking if this is more a focus to augment your magical abilities, maybe the staves should be Way-specific, and thusly your skill in that specific Way would determine your ability to wield it.

If you're talking about using it simply as a wooden thing to whack people, I would class that as a mace.

Mace
1. A heavy medieval war club with a spiked or flanged metal head, used to crush armor.
2. a ceremonial staff carried before or by certain officials as a symbol of office.

[Mishen]

Yea, I've seen that definition. Only in this case, the "ceremonial" implies a ritual rather than combat. Although, I suppose it won't stop one from trying. A beer mug could be used for the same purposes with enough effort. Where there is a will, there is a way.

In addition, a dictionary.com definition also classifies a staff as a stick, a pole, a rod, or a wand. A rod, for example, is also defined as a scepter.

Having said that, a combat mace used to crush heavy armor is sometimes described as a staff + a heavy spiked head. At the same time, a polearm is sometimes described as a long staff + an axe-like or spear-like head. Therefore, depending on the length of the staff and a type of head attached to it, as well as the size of the head, it can possibly be put into "Maces & Hammers" or "Polearms & Spears" categories, even without actually being a full-fledged mace or a polearm.

I suppose it's possible to have a skill requirement based on a type of staff itself. For example, a crushing staff might require "Maces & Hammers", while a piercing staff might require "Polearms & Spears". Whether it's realistic and desirable over a "Staffs" category is a different story, and those two don't always go together.

[Narure]

as for mana - I'm sure a crystal could provide some nice storage.

So what is mana? i thought it was just a wizards stamina for casting spells. How can you store it in a crystal, it makes no sense to me. If all magic comes from glyphs and cant be transfered to other objects how can you have MAGIC staffs in planeshift?

[Zan]

Magic is wielded by Glyphs in the Planeshift world. I seriously doubt staves will be used like they are in other fantasy games, to improve magic abilities or store spells. A staff would be just that, a staff to fight or walk with. It would be a weapon .. of course like other weapons it could be magically enhanced but it would still just be a weapon. Glyphs are the source of magic, not staves.

[Mishen]

So what is mana? i thought it was just a wizards stamina for casting spells.

No, you're confusing it with Mental Stamina. From the Player Guide:

Mana Points are the sum of all the bonuses given by your character's mental stats. Intelligence, will and charisma all influence that number in an equal way.

"How can you store it in a crystal?" You empower or imbue it. How can you store it in a mana potion? Creation of a mana potion requires some magical components. It could also be an improvement to one's mental stats rather than a direct storage or maybe it's a magic crystal to begin with. Azure Crystal is magic to begin with.

"How can you have Magic Staffs in PlaneShift?" Same way you can have Magic Weapons or Magic Items. Take a look at Diaboli and Ynnwn pages and note a reference to Magic Weapons and Magic Items.

From Player Guide on Magic:

The magical energy usable by the players in Yliakum comes from the Azure Crystal.

Maybe glyphs are the most common form of wielding magic known to the mortals in Yliakum but the magic energy comes from the Azure Crystal itself. Galeran, for example, did not use any glyphs when he started glittering with a chaotic power of raw magic, thanks to Laanx. Just as Talad created magic glyphs, it's not surprising that Laanx might have her own ways of introducing it to the mortals. Talad isn't the only god in Yliakum, remember? If some magic spells can already be used to improve certain stats, it doesn't sound unrealistic that a magic staff can do the same. And wizards can traditionally empower objects to improve virtually anything.

[Zan]

All weapon types already have specific weapons that are imbued with stat raising magic in the game .. so staves would become just another weapon type I presume. They won't become a source of magic and won't require a knowledge of magic to be wielded. They can be wielded by anyone who has the right requirements (stats) just like the rest of the weapons. So I presume when staves come into the game they'll get their own weapon skill cathegory .. or they will fall under blunt weapons.