All hail the collapse of the economy!

[Garon]

And, of course, there was always the chance that the damage wasn't as bad as you thought, and that the economy could've been salvaged...

I sincerely doubt that the economy could've been salvaged in any other, less drastic, way.  If, in one night, someone dropped a reported 3000 silverweaves and over 900 billion trias (which is what I've heard as rough estimates of how much was dropped), imagine how much was created in over a month by multiple players, even if they weren't doing it on the scale of that person.

[emeraldfool]

I sincerely doubt that the economy could've been salvaged in any other, less drastic, way.  If, in one night, someone dropped a reported 3000 silverweaves and over 900 billion trias (which is what I've heard as rough estimates of how much was dropped), imagine how much was created in over a month by multiple players, even if they weren't doing it on the scale of that person.

For one, Eid was working on this little stunt of his for a while.

For two, people only make 900 billion trias and 3000 silverweaves if they're trying to prove a point. Most people would make 2 silverweaves and 3 million trias and call it a day.

Which means it would take 300,000 players to rival what Eid did. Which is about 100 times the amount of players there actually is. And about 299,900 more than the amount of players who actually knew about this glitch.

And most of that money would be spent on skills and stats anyway, which hardly effects the economy at all.



So, even if what I'm saying is purely hypothetical, there's still a chance it might not have been as bad as it turned out. There's no defence for what Eid did.

[Eid]

it took me 5 minutes of prep time, not a long time, i thought long and hard abought doing it, i did not want to, i dont use bugs, but i felt it was the only option i had left to save a game i hold so dear to me. even if it was only for my friends and not myself

Well i guess it was more like 15 or 20 mins but you get the point

also i have no idea how much i actually dropped however 3000 SW's i know is much much higher than i did, i would estimate more like 1000 at most. as for tria probably 100-200 billion at most

[zanzibar]

it took me 5 minutes of prep time, not a long time, i thought long and hard abought doing it, i did not want to, i dont use bugs, but i felt it was the only option i had left to save a game i hold so dear to me. even if it was only for my friends and not myself

Well i guess it was more like 15 or 20 mins but you get the point

also i have no idea how much i actually dropped however 3000 SW's i know is much much higher than i did, i would estimate more like 1000 at most. as for tria probably 100-200 billion at most

Right, because if players had the resources to use all the features of the game as they please, the Planeshift community would die.  It's so obvious.

[emeraldfool]

it took me 5 minutes of prep time, not a long time, i thought long and hard abought doing it, i did not want to, i dont use bugs, but i felt it was the only option i had left to save a game i hold so dear to me. even if it was only for my friends and not myself

Well i guess it was more like 15 or 20 mins but you get the point

also i have no idea how much i actually dropped however 3000 SW's i know is much much higher than i did, i would estimate more like 1000 at most. as for tria probably 100-200 billion at most

Right, because if players had the resources to use all the features of the game as they please, the Planeshift community would die.  It's so obvious.

Oh not this 'glitches are your friends' crap...

[Eid]

it took me 5 minutes of prep time, not a long time, i thought long and hard abought doing it, i did not want to, i dont use bugs, but i felt it was the only option i had left to save a game i hold so dear to me. even if it was only for my friends and not myself

Well i guess it was more like 15 or 20 mins but you get the point

also i have no idea how much i actually dropped however 3000 SW's i know is much much higher than i did, i would estimate more like 1000 at most. as for tria probably 100-200 billion at most

Right, because if players had the resources to use all the features of the game as they please, the Planeshift community would die.  It's so obvious.

so what your saying is i should have told EVERYONE how to use the bug to even it out raher than telling no one but those who can fix it?

[Karyuu]

I think Zanzibar is referring more to your "I had to save the game" statement.

[Garon]

Most people would make 2 silverweaves and 3 million trias and call it a day.

Which is still 3 million extra trias in what is a small economy.

Say they spend, oh, 1.5 million of that on training, which is a lot for a single player's training;  It wouldn't take that kind of money to get to maxed stats and pretty high in your weapon of choice and armor(s) of choice.

That's still 1.5 million that they can put into the economy; multiply that by, say, 100 players who know how to do it, and that's 150 million trias entering an economy that could probably, if someone set out to do so, be controlled by a single player with much less then that.  That causes inflation, which might be temporarily offset by players making the most expensive weapons more common, but it won't be offset forever like that--eventually something will tip there.  The ones who are hurt most in this situation is the middle level of players; beginners would still use weapons they got from drops or from stores, those who can dupe weapons have an infinite supply of money; so any inflation they can just offset for themselves.  But the ones who are well off, but not incredibly rich are the ones who get hurt--those who own silverweaves or iron weapons obtained legally, those who make their money by mining gold or making high quality weapons.

---

My thanks for the clarification on the amounts that you dropped, I was going off of another player's estimates--I wasn't online for the incident.  That said, 75-200 billion and 700-1000 silverweaves (made rough estimates based on your top amounts) is still enough to have a huge effect on the economy.

[Eid]

ahh ok, also i just got to thinking while i was dropping stacks of large ammounts of money, i relized they were getting reduced, once dropped, probably a max item limit or somthing so that ammount would be signifigantly lower. 10-20 bill . perhaps the count that was reports was what other people had done


The economy was already dead, what i did was the wrong way to solve it, but it worked when teh right way did not

[emeraldfool]

it took me 5 minutes of prep time, not a long time, i thought long and hard abought doing it, i did not want to, i dont use bugs, but i felt it was the only option i had left to save a game i hold so dear to me. even if it was only for my friends and not myself

Well i guess it was more like 15 or 20 mins but you get the point

also i have no idea how much i actually dropped however 3000 SW's i know is much much higher than i did, i would estimate more like 1000 at most. as for tria probably 100-200 billion at most

Right, because if players had the resources to use all the features of the game as they please, the Planeshift community would die.  It's so obvious.

so what your saying is i should have told EVERYONE how to use the bug to even it out raher than telling no one but those who can fix it?

He's saying that we could've survived without your help. Which isn't exactly true. It would've come to light eventually, and the same damage would have been done (if not more, considering it would've taken longer)

But you didn't really tell anyone. If you told them properly, this would've been fixed before it was a problem. If nobody responds after a little whisper in a tech-forum, shout, don't rush off and do something drastic just to get back at them for 'ignoring you'.


Edit: 'The right way'? Tell me, what was it you did before immediately turning to the 'wrong' way?

[Eid]

I agree, and i know of many people who reported it "shouted" it. and again i appologize, i do not like the fact that this is turning people against eachother or the GM/DEVs they work hard, but they apparently did not see the scope of this bug untill i actually displayed it

[Garon]

ahh ok, also i just got to thinking while i was dropping stacks of large ammounts of money, i relized they were getting reduced, once dropped, probably a max item limit or somthing so that ammount would be signifigantly lower. 10-20 bill . perhaps the count that was reports was what other people had done


The economy was already dead, what i did was the wrong way to solve it, but it worked when teh right way did not

It did work out, fortunately... and yes, I'd say the economy was already in trouble, if not dead.

----

It's a moot point once you're over 5 billion trias dropped anyways; It doesn't really matter if you dropped 5 billion or 1 trillion, either will cause huge inflation and lots of related problems.

[Roahn]

I think Zanzibar is referring more to your "I had to save the game" statement.

To be quite honest, I think that, in a significant way, Eid *did* save the game. The economy was completely screwed up, as I think we all understand now. The duplication bug was reported officially months ago, yet it went unfixed. They finally fixed it, as Coneitic mentioned, less than 24 hours after Eid's actions. I think that if this incident didn't happen, this bug would probably remain "in the wild" for many more weeks or months.

I was at a wedding last week, and someone was giving 1 million trias to EVERY PERSON THERE. There's something wrong with this. While legitimate players work for weeks to earn 100k or training, dozens of people get a million trias just for attending a wedding. Dozens of people gained all that money because only ONE PERSON was exploiting. Now multiply that by all the people that I am sure were exploiting, and you've got a seriously messed up economy.

Now, everybody has 150k or less. Everybody has 2 of each weapon and/or glyph, at most. Now, in my opinion, things are more fair and balanced than they have been for months. Nothing is perfect, but I think the devs and GMs did a good job with this wipe.

Thank you, Eid, for having the courage to force these problems to be fixed. I will honor you and miss you. I am sorry that you had to pay the price of being banned for pressuring the devs to fix the problem that was ruining Planeshift's economy.

-Roahn

[emeraldfool]

I agree, and i know of many people who reported it "shouted" it.

I don't believe you. I've never come across the exploit until recently, and I've been scouring the forums for the last two months. I would've noticed something big.

If you really wanted to do avoid all this, you would've focussed on 'doing something drastic' in the forums, not in the game. Start several threads explaining exactly what you were going to do and how it would effect the economy before doing it. It would've worked just as well to drum up interest.

In case you hadn't noticed - it's the forums where all the action takes place

[Eid]

Ive very rarely used the PS forums before, howvere had i said what i planned to do, then i would not have been able to