Author Topic: So...looks like war  (Read 8511 times)

AendarCallenlasse

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« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2003, 09:33:33 pm »
Well I think a lot of people are forgetting that, as Rumsfeld and Bush have been saying, this isn\'t a war against Iraq, it\'s a war against Saddam and his regime.  As soon as he leaves it\'s over.  They want the military to turn against Saddam which many have already done.

Only n00bs don't quote themselves...
<Aendar>...

Ravenmaster

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« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2003, 11:15:54 pm »
One of my friends said that he has friends from Iraq. They currently live in the US, but they have family in Iraq. They are for the war, not against it, so I\'m confused. I don\'t know what to think.
You are here,
You will always be here,
You will never be there.
Although you may strive to get there,
upon reaching there you will realize you are really here.
And there is everywhere else.
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Bigfoot

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« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2003, 12:10:52 am »
Aendar are you realy that iggnorant?... america isnt gonna get out once this is over.

I love it how the first oil refinery that teh US troops took over they removed teh iragi flag and stuck teh american one up ^^... immediately there commanders told them to take it down and quickly ... talk about stupid troops. doesnt it seem teh americans are takeing the hard route and facing stiff resistance while teh british have been given the easy route to baghdad?.

also its neat how CNN has been kicked out of baghdad ^^... sicne now my countries main news station uses the BBCworld feed exculsivly ^^, alot better in my opinion.

Also on that thing about Sadams regiem giving bio weapons to terrorists, do some home work, bin ladin cant stand sadam (if he was interviewed now he\'d pretty much say \"go usa\", sadam is not even muslim, to fundamentalists and the militant muslims hes as just as much a infidel as us (hes a bathist?, bahhist?(sp?)). HELL the CIA for crying out loud has said there is no link between sadam and al qeuda... hows that for you guys, your own president lies in his speachs about that very fact, when his own intellegance agencies say teh complete opposite.. now... would you trust a man that lied?, and a supposed devoute christain man at that.

Its rather worrying to also see that Turky is now gonna (possably, although some reports say that they already have) cross over into iraq to stop kurdish seperatists from forming a independant state. Go america for giving  an example of \"do as you like, the rest of teh world (ie the UN) cant stop you\", not to mention if Turkey does this and the post war plans, which dumbfoundedly enough america actualy havent got anything!, we\'ll bomb you and save you but we havent realy thought over what we\'ll do after wards, and the sheit\'s(sp?) Kurds and Soonies(sp?) all vie for there own seperatist states (the UN will have to fix that problem, surprise surprise) then teh entire middle eastern region will be plunged into chaos and more fighting (sadam may be a dictator but he was in a way a bit of a stabilising force in the area, you soon forget your tribal aggressions and old time enemies when you have a common enemy)....

way to go America... oh wait i mean teh coalition of teh willing. (yeah as if teh support of such nations as the solomon islands, Rawanda, philipeans etc can be termed \"growing world support\", you put a nice spin on that one washington) 40 countries now support america?... take a look at acutaly WHO those countries are.

At least the missles the \"colation of the willing\" are using are actualy hitting there targets dead on, and civilian casualties are almost nill (all though we dont realy know much). thats one good thing coming out of this farse.

Well back to watching the news.

also for any one that hasnt heard (its a bit old now), theres a rumor, un confirmed speculation that saddam and possbaly one of his sons was either killed or wounded in teh very first missle bombardment of baghdad. Who knows would be good if they did get him first shot.

Cyo:- i dont care for teh rebulblican gaurd, there mostly thugs and bullyies anyway from what ive read, im \"saddened\" for the average iraqi stuck in the middle of all this, the you\'s and me\'s of Iraq, the ones that are fighting becuase your forced to, or your unable to do anything from fear to changing the regiem. Place your self in there shoes and try to say \"i dont care\" again.

funniest thing ive heard so far in all this... the british and americans blaming teh french for the failure of the diplomatic process...  ?(  ?(  ?( ... **boggle**
« Last Edit: March 22, 2003, 12:27:25 am by Bigfoot »

Kada-El

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« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2003, 01:08:00 am »
I haven\'t fully read this thread because I don\'t come here to air my views on politics and current affairs etc. I come here to get away from that stuff.

That said....

While I\'m not really an advocate for war, it somehow annoys me all the people who go out on anti-war protests, without being in anywhere near a position to have a clue about what the full facts are (not that I have a clue). Most of us are so far removed from the actual plight of the people there.
When I read comments from people in Afghanistan, Iraq and countries that have been through similar atrocities, I only see support for what is happening and it\'s their testimony I have to side with. I recently read an account from someone in Bulgaria about how the regime there executed their grandfather and how they wished that the Western alliances had intervened then, their closing comment was of shame that their current Prime Minister/President was opposing the current initiatives to rid Iraq of Saddam.

On a lighter note, I recently read a theory on how the US and allies had been planning to invade all along. The UN inspectors were just a nice way to check that it was actually safe to do so. No weapons of mass destruction and look, we can destroy a load of these missiles because they travel a meter and and a half further than they said they would, woooo lets invade!! Quite a good plan when you think about it.

I hope I didn\'t rant too much, I\'ll really try not to let it happen again - like I said I don\'t really come here for that ;)

Vengeance

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« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2003, 06:20:06 am »
I don\'t see what you find hard to believe about blaming the French for sabotaging the diplomatic process...

If the French had maintained the hard line on disarmament that the others were (i.e. a REAL threat of REAL consequences), Saddam probably wouldn\'t have thought he could get away with non-compliance and we might not be in this situation.

As far as I\'m concerned, the French should be kicked out of NATO and left to their own devices--which is all they follow anyway.  The reports that even last week they were selling spare parts for the Iraqi planes is unacceptable.  That\'s something you expect to hear North Korea is doing, not France.  Jacques Chirac has lost his mind.

Ravenmaster

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« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2003, 08:17:02 pm »
This is an email sent to George Dubya (not by me, or course):



Dear Governor Bush:

So today is what you call \"the moment of truth,\" the day that \"France and the rest of world have to show their cards on the table.\" I\'m glad to hear that this day has finally arrived. Because, I gotta tell ya, having survived 440 days of your lying and conniving, I wasn\'t sure if I could take much more. So I\'m glad to hear that today is Truth Day, \'cause I got a few truths I would like to share with you:

1. There is virtually NO ONE in America (talk radio nutters and Fox News aside) who is gung-ho to go to war. Trust me on this one. Walk out of the White House and on to any street in America and try to find five people who are PASSIONATE about wanting to kill Iraqis. YOU WON\'T FIND THEM! Why? \'Cause NO Iraqis have ever come here and killed any of us! No Iraqi has even threatened to do that. You see, this is how we average Americans think: If a certain so-and-so is not perceived as a threat to our lives, then, believe it or not, we don\'t want to kill him! Funny how that works!

2. The majority of Americans -- the ones who never elected you -- are not fooled by your weapons of mass distraction. We know what the real issues are that affect our daily lives -- and none of them begin with I or end in Q. Here\'s what threatens us: two and a half million jobs lost since you took office, the stock market having become a cruel joke, no one knowing if their retirement funds are going to be there, gas now costs almost two dollars -- the list goes on and on. Bombing Iraq will not make any of this go away. Only you need to go away for things to improve.

3. As Bill Maher said last week, how bad do you have to suck to lose a popularity contest with Saddam Hussein? The whole world is against you, Mr. Bush. Count your fellow Americans among them.

4. The Pope has said this war is wrong, that it is a SIN. The Pope! But even worse, the Dixie Chicks have now come out against you! How bad does it have to get before you realize that you are an army of one on this war? Of course, this is a war you personally won\'t have to fight. Just like when you went AWOL while the poor were shipped to Vietnam in your place.

5. Of the 535 members of Congress, only ONE (Sen. Johnson of South Dakota) has an enlisted son or daughter in the armed forces! If you really want to stand up for America, please send your twin daughters over to Kuwait right now and let them don their chemical warfare suits And let\'s see every member of Congress with a child of military age also sacrifice their kids for this war effort. What\'s that you say? You don\'t THINK so? Well, hey, guess what -- we don\'t think so either!

6. Finally, we love France. Yes, they have pulled some royal screw-ups. Yes, some of them can be pretty damn annoying. But have you forgotten we wouldn\'t even have this country known as America if it weren\'t for the French? That it was their help in the Revolutionary War that won it for us? That our greatest thinkers and founding fathers -- Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, etc. -- spent many years in Paris where they refined the concepts that lead to our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution? That it was France who gave us our Statue of Liberty, a Frenchman who built the Chevrolet, and a pair of French brothers who invented the movies? And now they are doing what only a good friend can do -- tell you the truth about yourself, straight, no b.s. Quit pissing on the French and thank them for getting it right for once. You know, you really should have traveled more (like once) before you took over. Your ignorance of the world has not only made you look stupid, it has painted you into a corner you can\'t get out of.  

Well, cheer up -- there IS good news. If you do go through with this war, more than likely it will be over soon because I\'m guessing there aren\'t a lot of Iraqis willing to lay down their lives to protect Saddam Hussein.  After you \"win\" the war, you will enjoy a huge bump in the popularity polls as everyone loves a winner -- and who doesn\'t like to see a good ass-whoopin\' every now and then (especially when it \'s some third  world ass!). So try your best to ride this victory all the way to next year\'s election. Of course, that\'s still a long ways away, so we\'ll all get to have a good hardy-har-har while we watch the economy sink even further  down the toilet!

But, hey, who knows -- maybe you\'ll find Osama a few days before the
election! See, start thinking like THAT! Keep hope alive! Kill Iraqis
--
they got our oil!!

Yours,

Michael Moore

You are here,
You will always be here,
You will never be there.
Although you may strive to get there,
upon reaching there you will realize you are really here.
And there is everywhere else.
-Spoonjoppa

Cyonamie

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« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2003, 12:30:31 am »
bigfoot, your post was full of bullshit and teh\'s. im sorry but i had to say it.  iraqi\'s can and have been surrendering, the americans only fire when they have been fired upon, otherwise 3 americans wouldnt have been killed today by NORMAL iraqi citzens, the you\'s and me\'s as you call them.  im not pro-war, and im not against war either, but i also would like to beat the crap out of anyone who says \"are you willing to fight for oil\".
iraq just kept crossing the line over and over, and they finally pushed it too far, not my problem, its their\'s now.


Bigfoot

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« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2003, 01:15:48 am »
heh Michael Moore...

i like that guy, his Awful truth show was great, pitty they used to show it here realy late, missed a few of them. Although he can get a little overly negative sometimes.

what has my lack of typo correcting got to do with anything?... couldnt give a damn how many teh\'s i stuck in there.

You obviousley mis took what i said in that second to last paragraph in my post, i never said they coudnt surrender... but what i was saying was that pre war they where unable to speak out and oust there own leader, due to fear and overt and covert threats. It was funny how on a panorama documentary they showed a week ago about Iraqi teenages and how they are backing saddam and thought of him as a great leader, well the interviewer asked one of them that he was interviewing in a public teahouse (this particular teen was very pro saddam and was saying how great he was bringing free schooling and such to the country) the interviewer asked about if you wanted to speak up about saddam would you be allowed to (unsure of teh exact qeustion but it was a rather leading question along that line) well the teenager who was very much a talkative person before hand praiseing the greatness of saddam turned around hesitated a  bit and said some thing to teh effect of \"thats a difficult question, that would take a while to explain so im not gonna answer it\" ... freedom to speak out against there own leader... i dont think so. Its interesting to see also how the whitehouse administration has taken this rather \"Saddamish\" line of action as well, one example was of a tv show that aired a rather comical cartoon segment that made fun of george bush, later the whitehouse lackeys phoned them up and told them to pull it off the air... freedom of speach, yeah well.

anyway

\"not my problem\" the ultimate in pass the buck phrases, good to see you care about the rest of teh world.

We had a very good 5 page news artical in our major news paper this weekend title \"the arrogant empire\" written i might add by an american. its far to long to post, but it pretty much sumed up every thing about the stupidity of the war and how this all was planned and started way before 9/11 ... very good reading and very eye opening, although i doubt youd go further than the first few paragraphs.

to end here is a nice qoute from a late night talk show i saw on tv a while back.

\"Well we found those weapons of mass destruction we where looking for, the only problem is... there in north Korea\"

oh and i forgot are you willing to fight for oil?

Creathor

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« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2003, 01:32:03 am »
I would like to quote Audioslave or rather their banners at one of their concerts.

\"How many Iraqis per gallon\"
\"Somwhere in Texas a village is missing an idiot\"

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Dumb Woob

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« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2003, 05:11:28 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Creathor
I would like to quote Audioslave or rather their banners at one of their concerts.

\"How many Iraqis per gallon\"
\"Somwhere in Texas a village is missing an idiot\"


again, Post by Venge.
Quote
b) It has been said that Bush is only doing this for the money, or because he wants to control the oil over there. This is really the opposite of the truth. The USA only gets 17% of its oil from ANY Arab country, and 0% from Iraq. The countries who get oil from Iraq, and who have the most economic ties to Iraq at this point, are who? France, Germany and Russia--the exact three countries who oppose this war the most. THEY are the ones who care only about money and not about morality or the safety of the western world.



Creathor

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« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2003, 05:39:08 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Dumb Woob
again, Post by Venge.
Quote
b) It has been said that Bush is only doing this for the money, or because he wants to control the oil over there. This is really the opposite of the truth. The USA only gets 17% of its oil from ANY Arab country, and 0% from Iraq. The countries who get oil from Iraq, and who have the most economic ties to Iraq at this point, are who? France, Germany and Russia--the exact three countries who oppose this war the most. THEY are the ones who care only about money and not about morality or the safety of the western world.





Well oil is just one part of it. First of all I doubt that it has anything to do with the Iraqi people suffering or Sadaam having weapons of mass destruction.
Bush has big problems, the US economy is in a pretty bad shape, his ideas just don\'t make any sense. My guess is that the health care and the education aren\'t that good either. So now he has to divert attention, if people are occupied with the war, nobody\'s going to write stories about how bush is driving the wedge between lower and higher classes, making the rich richer, and the poor poorer.
Then the oil, if the US is successfull they will put a dummy government in Iraq and they WILL have the control over the Iraqi oil, and that\'s why Germany and France are opposed to it, it has nothing to do with morality for them either.
Is Sadaam an evil man, yes, but is Bush an idiot, most likely. The guy did too much coke and I think we can all notice that in his speaches. The was with Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11 and Bush is just using it as an excuse, it will probably increase the number of terrorist attacks on the US.
I don\'t know if u\'ve been reading the news but just before the war kids were getting kicked out of schools for speaking out agains it, and a guy got arrested for \"trespassing\" in a mall when he wouldn\'t take off a \"give piece a chance\" t-shirt in a mall.
Now I don\'t know how long this will last but US is in for a quite a ride with Bush.

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Dumb Woob

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« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2003, 08:55:47 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Creathor
I don\'t know if u\'ve been reading the news but just before the war kids were getting kicked out of schools for speaking out agains it, and a guy got arrested for \"trespassing\" in a mall when he wouldn\'t take off a \"give piece a chance\" t-shirt in a mall.


Yeah that is a bit ridiculous, Why fight for more freedom for Iraqis if We ourselves won\'t allow a simple anti-war shirt in our malls?  I also think you mean \"Give PEACE a chance\" ;)


Creathor

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« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2003, 12:46:45 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Dumb Woob
 I also think you mean \"Give PEACE a chance\" ;)


LOL, yeah that\'s the one, Link\'s absence made me careless.

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Galadon

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« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2003, 02:17:17 am »
How many here have forgotten

   September 11, 2001

  Bush is ready to \"nip it in the butt\" so to speak and I hope are next president is as well.

 As far as France and Germany my guess is theres going to be allot more investigation into what they had been selling Sadam for the past 12yr`s ..  New light in the face of TRUTH!!!

Bigfoot

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« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2003, 02:30:09 am »
Its funny that Galadon since I was reading on a British newspapers website about how a reporter and the solider group he was traveling with were going along the road past some of the bombed out smokeing tanks and millitary vechials of the iraqi troops, and surprisingly enough alot of them where old American tanks, with a few clapped out russian tanks thrown in.

You do realise that saddam and Iraq were armed with chemical weapons and update military vechials and backed by the US government during the 6 day war with Iran.

After which saddam got pissed at not beng given anything for his help in it, he later invaded Kuwait saying that it would be his reward for doing what the americans had told him to do in Iran. Since the american government shafted him after the 6 day war was over.

America has a long track history of \"shieting in there own nest\" as my brother says.

so maybe you should think before you cast your first stone.

what does 9/11 have to do with war in Iraq?... theres no connection with Saddams Ba\'ath party regieme and Al Qeuda, but oh wait your Cheney/Rumsfield puppet president Bush said there was in those numerouse laughable speaches he makes... hell must be true then.

ps:- 9/11 was and still is in my opinion a henouse act of terrorisim that cost teh lives of thousands of innocent people, a black day in history. to blacken it even further by linking it as justification to this War makes the lose of those lives trivial, and those that use the event in connection with this war should be ashamed.

heres a neat site, give it a look and you\'ll see just how moronic your president realy is, some of his qoutes are disturbingly scarey. I disliked him before seeing this site, after going through it  and seeing what he was actualy saying, i realy realy dislike the guy now.

www.bushspeaks.com
« Last Edit: March 24, 2003, 02:50:21 am by Bigfoot »