Author Topic: Wait what? WHOA!  (Read 9905 times)

zanzibar

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #105 on: February 09, 2007, 09:13:00 am »
50 years, maybe.  I think we'll start seeing serious changes long before that.

Ocean levels rising well in excess of 20 feet... goodbye Netherlands, goodbye most of India.  I wonder will all those people are going to move to.
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Uyaem

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #106 on: February 09, 2007, 09:53:56 am »
4 inches? that's nothing!
We recently had like 40cm!

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Sangwa

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #107 on: February 09, 2007, 10:04:13 am »
It snowed in Lisbon. And that's rare. It's the second time it happens in my life time :P. (19 years)
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and I can be reasoned with. I'm probably right, though.

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Parallo

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #108 on: February 09, 2007, 06:49:49 pm »
So before we all gather to be turned into icicles on a small rock somewhere to save whats left of the human race, and try not to drown.

Welcome to Ireland.
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Narure

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #109 on: February 09, 2007, 07:44:31 pm »
Humans keep pumping nasty gasses into the atmosphere. The more humans the more gasses, the more problems for the humans, the more humans die, the less humans there are, the less gasses there are, the less problems there are... Just nature sorting itself out.

Robinmagus

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #110 on: February 10, 2007, 12:44:57 am »
That actually kinda made sense...
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zanzibar

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #111 on: February 10, 2007, 03:30:07 am »
That actually kinda made sense...


If it weren't for the fact that the human population is still increasing at an ever faster and faster rate.
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Xordan

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #112 on: February 10, 2007, 03:35:22 am »
50 years, maybe.  I think we'll start seeing serious changes long before that.

Ocean levels rising well in excess of 20 feet... goodbye Netherlands, goodbye most of India.  I wonder will all those people are going to move to.

Netherlands will probably be ok, they've got a big wall.. or is that Denmark?

bilbous

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #113 on: February 10, 2007, 06:47:36 am »
The Netherlands has be reclaiming the sea for many years but I really think there is a limit to how big you can build a dike, the higher the sea rises the more of their country they will have to encircle to stay dry. Wouldn't that be something go to Holland and you get off the boat at the seawall wherever you arrive and go down into the countryside.

lordraleigh

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #114 on: February 10, 2007, 10:35:29 pm »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

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Funding of skeptics

Some of these opponents to the anthropogenic, global-warming theory have links to the fossil- fuels industry. [37] For example, Patrick J. Michaels and Frederick Seitz have both been linked to the George C. Marshall Institute--Michaels as a "visiting scientist" and Seitz as "Chairman Emeritus.".[38] The Institute has received numerous large grants from ExxonMobil, and from petroleum-related organizations such as the Sarah Scaife Foundation and the Carthage Foundation [39][40][41]Similarly, the Competitive Enterprise Institute has received several large grants from the Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation, the Sarah Scaife Foundation, and from ExxonMobil.[42][43]The CEI website lists both S. Fred Singer and Robert Balling as "experts," while Ross McKitrick headed up a CEI project called the Cooler Heads Coalition.[44][45] Many observers are critical of these connections, suggesting that they pose a conflict of interest. [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53].

Scientists, critical of some aspects of the discussion and their donors, dispute the validity of this guilt-by-association argument. These same critics are, themselves, part of government, state-college, and university systems; the scientific organizations listed in the proponents section; or some mix. Most have been considered skeptics, or at least somewhat skeptical, of certain points since long before the funding was provided. For example, according to the Forbes story [54] listed above, The Intermountain Rural Electric Association of Sedalia, CO (IREA) funded Patrick Michaels because according to its GM "'We cannot allow the discussion to be monopolized by the alarmists,'" and said that, although he "...believes [that] global warming is real, just not as big a problem as scientists claim, he acknowledged [that] this is a special-interest issue. He said the bigger concern is his 130,000 customers, who want to keep rates low, so coal-dependent utilities need to prevent any taxes or programs that penalize fossil fuel use." In that same article, Donald Kennedy of Science, said that " 'skeptics such as Michaels are lobbyists more than researchers' "; and that " 'I don't think it's unethical any more than most lobbying is unethical,' "; and that " ...donations to skeptics amounts to 'trying to get a political message across.' " This tends to further refine the entire dispute as being one of a political nature.

Other criticisms of funding are made by groups known to be in direct opposition to either corporations in general or energy ones in particular, such as the Mother Jones criticism of ExxonMobil donating to groups such as the American Council for Capital Formation [55]. Such groups complain that the ACCF presented an appendix that focused only on the uncertainties of a 2001 NAS report when the ACCF testified in front of the U.S. Senate. Mother Jones’ complaint seems to be only that, although the ACCF usually focuses on economic critiques of policies, this time they wrote something one-sided about the science involved in the debate to support their economic position on the Kyoto Protocol. Doing that, according to Mother Jones, puts them in the skeptic camp.

Similarly, before starting JunkScience.com, Steven Milloy belonged to an organization called The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC), which was paid by tobacco companies to cast doubt on studies about the dangers of secondhand smoke [56] [57]. Most of the authors of these editorials, their websites, or the publications themselves are almost universally extremely critical of the role of industry and government in environmental matters, and focus almost entirely on negative aspects of the debate [58] [59] [60] [61].

What is more important? The welfare of future generations or the profits of the big corporations and the reckless consumerism of the "American Way of Life"?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 10:53:06 pm by lordraleigh »

Under the moon

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #115 on: February 11, 2007, 06:52:42 am »
Just a few facts:

The Earth is not a static environment. Means: It -will- change.

The hole in the ozone is -not- getting smaller. Means: This last year is the biggest ever recorded.

A mini ice age occurred less than two hundred years ago. Means: They can happen without our help.

Greenhouse gasses help warm the Earth. Means: Keyword 'help'. They are not the only cause of global warming, but they are the one thing we can partially curb. I say partially, because CO2 is not the only, nor worst of the greenhouse gasses.

The sun is in an expanding cycle: Means: You are so screwed if you think getting rid of greenhouse gasses is going to stop global warming. The Earth -is- slowly going to get hotter, and there is nothing we can do about it.

The polar caps are melting. Means: Move inland, or get wet.

Humans are the most adaptable creature on the planet. Means: We will survive most changes in weather. Other creatures will not. extinction is a fact of life, folks. You can't save everything. See fact one.

Antarctica had a temperature spike way back when. Means: Nothing. It was a fluke in the weather pattern. Shall I go outside right now and say it never rains in Wisconsin because it did not rain today? Or that there is always six inches of ice on the river because that is what I just measured? Only a fool predicts the weather by one day. Weather is a huge and evolving creature that we can barely understand. You can only begin to understand it by looking at statistics encompassing years, centuries, or millennia. Anything else is just idiocy.

The moon is drifting further away from the Earth every year. Means: Unknown, but something with one sixth our own gravity moving away from us will have a profound effect. The tides will get weaker as well. Not to worry, the Moon moves away at less than four inches a year. Fact: The moon was six times larger in the sky in the time of the dinosaurs.

The Earth is slowing down. Means: Unknown. This is so much bigger than us that most can not comprehend what it might mean. Incidentally, one leading theory is that the Moon is what is robbing the Earth of its spin, and thus gives it a four inch boost further out into space. Want to know how? Look it up. I'll give you a hint. It has to do with the oceans.

Greenland used to be green. Means: See point one.

Bush has stripped the science budget for environmental studies. Means: If you can't see it, it must not be there. How scary is that? Sure, you can try to blame Congress, but guess who has the power of Veto. What you do not stop, you allow by default.

The permafrost in Siberia is melting. Means: First you must know exactly what a great deal of permafrost is made of before you can understand what this means. Permafrost is basically frozen biomassthat has built up for thousands of years. When biomass melts, it starts to rot. When it rots, it give off an insane amount of methane. Fact: Methane is a far more effective greenhouse gas than CO2. This is the cycle: Biomass melts and rots -> massive amounts of methane release, increase greenhouse effect, warming the Earth -> more biomass melts -> etc.  Means: We can not stop global warming anymore.

The ocean floors are covered in methylhydrates. Means: Methylhydrates are basically a mixture of pure methane in a water crystal matrix. The cold and pressure of the ocean depths keeps it that way. If something were to disturb the cold currents, bad things can happen. Very bad things. Interesting fact: A release of methane from disturbed methylhydrates will sink any ship instantly. Fact two: There is a huge deposit of methylhydrates under the Bermuda Triangle.

The point of the last two statements is simple. They are both gigantic boulders balanced on a ledge. Once they begin to tip over that ledge, there will not be anything that can stop them. Doomsday for the planet? Who knows? You have to remember at one point the entire surface of this world was warm and tropical. You also have to remember that at another time, half the planet was covered in ice. No one will know how we are going to end up until we get there. It could be something rare could happen, and the Earth will continue its precarious balancing act... and stay relatively the same.

I would like to wrap this up by saying there are many other things to consider, such as the oceans getting saltier, the Earth tipping more on its axis, the effect of highways and cities on temperature, meteors, and many others. The biggest point is, we are simply not the masters of this world. Humans and human suffering really means nothing on the larger scale. With or without us, the world will go on, until our sun turns into a red giant in a few billion years…and swallows it.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 07:00:22 am by Under the moon »

zanzibar

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #116 on: February 11, 2007, 07:26:30 am »
Whoa.  That's an "uber post" if I ever saw one.  You're obviously educated on this topic, more so than I am.

The only thing I'll add is that average world temperatures over the last 400,000 years are highly correlational to atmospheric CO^2 levels.
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dying_inside

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #117 on: February 11, 2007, 10:50:07 am »
I should really print that out and show it around to some neurotic people...

Parallo

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #118 on: February 11, 2007, 11:20:54 am »
Just take them to see An Inconvienient Truth. My friend watched it the other day. I'm normally preaching to him about it and now he's on a campaign to have it shown at the local primary and secondary schools.
I suggest the statue of Laanx gets turned into a statue of Parallo <3. An NPC could never replace the huge hole he left in my heart when he died  :'(

LARAGORN

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Re: Wait what? WHOA!
« Reply #119 on: February 11, 2007, 03:08:09 pm »
I dont know if anyone has mentioned Global Dimming, Interesting BBC Horizon episode.
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This is a documentary that deals with a climatic phenomenon that has been seriously underestimated and how this should forc us to recognise that global warming is a far greater threath than has previously been assumed. It's from the BBC so it's very good, clear and to the point. A must see for anyone wondering about the state of the Earth. 

The earth has gone through many different stages, and as have been stated in this thread, it will continue to do so. One stage that dosent come up to often is the Snowball Event, not to be confused with an Ice Age.

The earths rotation is also slowing, along with the Schumann Resonance (earths vibration frequency). What effects these have are varying in opinion, one extreme view on these effects is Zero point.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 05:21:03 pm by LARAGORN »

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