Author Topic: new combat style  (Read 13073 times)

Gharan

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2007, 05:10:09 am »
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Autostance is set to full defensive.  In full defensive you deal no damage.  Dagger speed doesn't help

I killed someone several times today with autostance.

So you have to /stopattack to stop the autostance then try your stance again?

If so then it's not as bad as I thought but it was very much luck, a pure 50/50 even if your 30 levels behind. At the moment there's really no need to train to a very high level in your weapon.

neko kyouran

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2007, 05:18:44 am »
I killed someone several times today with autostance.

I could be wrong then.  I was under the information (from what I read around here) that when a character is attacked by an enemy, they automatically go into full defense stance.  The devs had changed this from going into a normal stance, to prevent people from abusing the rats in the sewers (or any mob really) aggressiveness to get free PP without them actually being there at the computer.

Maybe this is different when the enemy is another player character as opposed to a npc mob.

Sounds like something someone can go and test.  :)

Valorius Rageway

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2007, 05:27:00 am »
Add me to the list of displeased duelists. While the correction of some of the movement bugs is most welcome(and appreciated!), the overall changes greatly detract from what was one of the strengths of planeshift, which is moving combat capabilities.

Everything is still possible on the move, but requires absolutely pinpoint timing now, which will make it that much harder for new players to learn the art. I hope that the old attack mechanics are restored.

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zanzibar

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2007, 05:29:33 am »
Hmm.  We could go to the pre-CB days when there was no combat in the game at all. :-D  I'd like to experience that, I'm too new...
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Valorius Rageway

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2007, 05:34:20 am »
oh, so even though the new system was supposed to stop hit and run attacks, you still can use the tehnique, but only the first time, because then you have to cancel the attack manylly each time, before you are going to evaluate the proper timing, so that you can hit in the moement while in range.
I'm sorry to say people, but you are abusing the game by using hit and run attacks and you can't complain that now it became more annoying.
I used that tehnique too, because who wouldn't if you want to win a duel. The thing is that oce people are doing something better than you are, you have to learn this and do do the same. Abusing game or not, you have to. So, now it will be even more annoying, but there is nothing to complain about people.

As combat got semi fixed, now we have to wait till the process will be finished. So go ahead, give ideas, but forget about hit and run attacks, in this form it was for so long.

Stop moving attacks? What in the name of the gods would you want to do that for? Those are the strength of the Planeshift combat, and require real skill and timing to use!

Taking out the moving attack is NUTS.
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zanzibar

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2007, 05:39:10 am »
If you want to duel people using OOC player skills, go play Subspace: Continuum.  Planeshift is a roleplaying game, and as such, it is the skill of your character that should make the most difference.

Hit and run attacks almost completely bipass the game mechanics.  They bipass character skills in favour of player skills.  Hit and Run attacks, in duels, is cheating.
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Valorius Rageway

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2007, 05:42:41 am »
Fighting should be about character skill, not player skill.  That's pretty much what this combat system is trying to accomplish.

Nurahk, this sounds okay in theory, but currently a person moderately trained in Sword and carrying a nice weapon can kill a character maxed in everything in one hit, and it makes a duel pretty much a coin toss: The person who hits first, wins. Not fun at all.

The way dueling was prior to 3.018, some skill was involved beyond blind luck and training. Luck and training were still factors, but not the only factor.

-Roahn

Its no coin toss at all. The skilled duelist will land that blow 85% of the time at least.
And in real life if you get hit by a razor sharp super high quality Short Sword in the hands of a 'moderate swordsman', even if you're chuck norris himself, you're going to die.

The old system was very realistic IMO. One of THE strengths of the entire game. :(
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Gharan

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2007, 05:43:11 am »
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Hit and Run attacks, in duels, is cheating.

And standing and duelling would be death to a sword user against a dagger user everytime.

Valorius Rageway

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2007, 05:43:48 am »
If you want to duel people using OOC player skills, go play Subspace: Continuum.  Planeshift is a roleplaying game, and as such, it is the skill of your character that should make the most difference.

Hit and run attacks almost completely bipass the game mechanics.  They bipass character skills in favour of player skills.  Hit and Run attacks, in duels, is cheating.


So just stand there and "slog it out toe to toe" then?

TOTALLY LAME. Everyone ive spoken to in game tonight, everyone without exception, has agreed.  And installing the combat mechanics of "push button, watch attack as you are totally uninvolved" is REAL fun, let me tell you...

Real sword fights are highly mobile affiars. There is lots of bursting in and out, circling, and sprinting. NO ONE just stands there and stabs each other. It is totally unrealistic, totally uninvolving....boring.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 05:46:46 am by Valorius Rageway »
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neko kyouran

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2007, 05:48:12 am »
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Hit and Run attacks, in duels, is cheating.

And standing and duelling would be death to a sword user against a dagger user everytime.

Not all the time.

Remember that the combat system is still, like everything else, a work in progress.  In the end, each weapon type will have advantages/disadvantages towards other weapon types, armor types, stances, etc.

Maybe it would be like that, as of right now with a not even half finished combat system, but probably not when it's all said and done.  :)

lordraleigh

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2007, 05:51:03 am »
I don't think that in PnP RPGs the player skills with such tricks like timing and "hit and run" matter, but I disagree with the way the combat system was changed, I have some things to add about this system that would make it better.

1) You should be able hit someone that is not right at your front, but a little right or left from you and still ahead and with you facing the same direction from him, by horizontally slashing the target with a larger weapon (longsword) drawn to your left or to your right. Hitting enemies at your side would be easier with daggers, very hard with larger weapons and impossible with spears and polearms obviously. Only the hitting enemy on your back should be blocked.

2) A turn 180 degreess command(which speed of turning would depend on AGI) would be very useful in the case someone tried to backstab your character and immediate reaction is needed.

3) The "lock" attack seems to be just a temporary fix against the "hit and run" exploit. I think the best solution would be to make character collision and weapon ranges matter, right now you can't hit someone with a longsword before this one hits you with a dagger. There is another way of doing "hit and run", by changing it into withdrawing from range of your enemy, something that should not be so easy and that would give the enemy an opportunity to hit you before you withdraw.

4) Charging against your opponent instead of moving slowly to him should give you an offensive advantage and a defensive disadvantage. It should automatically change your instance to beserk or aggressive or perhaps add its effects to the stances.

5) Piercing, slashing and bludgeoning are equally sustained by all types of armor now, and a short sword is as effective to slash through a chain mail than a longsword. Kinds of weapons, damage types, sizes and such, for now, have no influence on the way armors will react to their strike.

6) Remove or reduce the power of the "one hit kills uber-weapons", they are the bane of all and turn combat into pure luck as someone with lvl 30 in daggers and 0 in light armors can kill anyone with some luck and two silverweaves(This is the case on the previous combat system as well, but in that case it was "someone with lvl 30 daggers, 0 in light armor and master of the timing and 'hit and run' can kill anyone with some luck". Also avoiding to use anything beyond a random number between 1-20  for combat rolls would be wise to avoid excessive randomness of combat.

7) Intelligence stat should be important as well. A smart character could actually withdraw automatically from combat if losing and take advantage of the environment.

And after all I disagree with such "fix" that seems to have brought more balance problems than to have solved the previous ones. The transition to character-based combat would definitively be better if it was implemented later after being a little more complete.

zanzibar

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2007, 05:51:38 am »
So just stand there and "slog it out toe to toe" then?

TOTALLY AWESOME!

Fixed. :D


Real sword fights are highly mobile affiars. There is lots of bursting in and out, circling, and sprinting. NO ONE just stands there and stabs each other. It is totally unrealistic, totally uninvolving....boring.

To an extent, yes.  But hit and run attacks in PS do not reflect that.  They're of a very different nature.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 06:03:10 am by zanzibar »
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Suno_Regin

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2007, 05:55:45 am »
How do you people make 3 pages so fast? Anyway, what is this new style exactly? Is it just made so you have to face them to attack them, or is there something else?

zanzibar

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2007, 06:03:34 am »
How do you people make 3 pages so fast? Anyway, what is this new style exactly? Is it just made so you have to face them to attack them, or is there something else?


Basically, you set your character to autoattack the target the instant you get into range.
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Suno_Regin

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2007, 06:06:06 am »
Good, I always wanted that. Now I don't have to keep mashing my mouse button down and spamming the chat window. This should also stop the "falling through the world" thing.