I sympathize with all players who liked the old way of dueling, I see that many of them like to RP as well, and will definately not tell them to find another game. There are a few points I want people to consider though.
First of all, an obvious one, combat as it is now is not as it will be when it is finished. Arguments like 'in real life you move around' are true for now, but not when it is taken into account in both formulas (for dodge, etc) and animation (in the end, you may see characters run around the room in fights that take minutes). This includes fine tuning things to not result in one hit kills. There are long threads about how this could/should work, but things like length of weapon, using weapons for defence will probably taken into account in later versions (10 years from now
).
Secondly, there is the point of player skill vs character skill. What is difficult to distinguish in many posts, is which of the two 'I's is speaking. So I will try to make that clearer here.
I, the character Lanarel, am not too bad in using a sword and defending myself using light armor (about level 35 in both). I can easilly kill many monsters and all that lives in the arena (so not including visitors
). It may even get easier if I find some better swords. I have not duelled much, since I do not like to kill others for fun, especially if they are much weaker than me, and I fear what guards might do if I just murder someone, or how trainers will think of me when I go to them to train, and they know that I use my skills for killing for fun. If there were a reason to fight for a good cause (such as that battle near the face some time ago), I am not afraid to risk going to the death realm (as I surprisingly did, despite my skills).
I, the player behind Lanarel, am playing this game on a PC that is able to run it, but sometimes with some lag due to memory limitations. It makes movement sometimes look a bit strange, but luckily it does not matter in fighting npcs, due to the way the combat system is made. It would make dueling another player who uses a hit and run technique impossible though, even if their character would be much weaker. Making a character that would be a good dueller does not make sense if the outcome of a duel mostly is defined by hardware and training in using the right shortcuts.
In real life, I have been fencing for almost 20 years. At the moment I am one of the better sabre fencers in my country, which arguably does not say that much compared to countries with more fencing tradition, but definately means something relative to many fencers, let alone people who never have held a fencing weapon. However, this should not help my characters in game at all. However, my reaction times are well better than average. As such, if my hardware were better and if I would spent a bit of time on training hit and run, I should be able to beat many players, despite their character being more skilled or having a better weapon. As a fencer, I would think it was completely unrealistic, especially taking into account the skill of my character.
To come back to a few points made in other posts:
Here is something that might astound you, I know many if not most of the duelers in this game. All of them, without exception, are exceptional RPers (to the core). They are dedicated to this world, through and through. They roleplay even in the most strenuous of duels and they RP passionately when not dueling. Dueling has become an integral part of RP. Its what makes a warrior a warrior, a ranger a ranger, a fighter a fighter.
I cannot (and do not want to) disagree with that. I wonder though, how selective the run and attack way of duelling is. In other words, how many players would have duelling characters if combat was less depending on hardware and player skills (and combat was more developed
). From reading this thread you get the idea that (almost) all duelers like the old way. But isn't it like asking people on an invitation only party what they like about the picture on the invitation? And then telling someone at the door "Sorry not interested in your opinion, you were not invited". Ok, maybe this is not a perfect analogy, but it shows what I mean.
In the real world, a swordsman doesn't do what you claim he should do. Mobility is the key to combat, specially when you are outclassed. A fencer does not stand staticly before his opponent in real life. Why should that now be disabled here?
As you can read above, I fully agree with that, except for the last question. It is exactly the reason it should be disabled FOR THE PLAYER, it
just is not yet implemented (as an animation, balancing, formulas) for the character.
A character's skill already has a huge impact on a duel's outcome. Since its obvious you've had little or no experience dueling, perhaps you might consider trying it. Hit and run attacks is real, its how real fights occur. Perhaps you were planning to stand before the Ulber and let character skills apply there too?
Hit and run attacks are not real. Would my opponent in fencing be surprised if I would run right through him and attack him from behind. To be
fair, fencing as a sport has to have its limitations as well. Since no blood is involved, rules are made to prevent you from running into your opponents weapon with your hearth because you are going to hurt his toe. Hit and run has its similarities to how you play with distance in a fencing match, but again, me the player being very good at that should not mean all of my characters are as well.
And yes, my character would stand in front of an ulber and die (I have some nice screenshots to prove that
). And my character should be killed. If an ulber is that strong that it requires more than one to kill it, it should only be killed by more than one.
What Eila says about mobile melee engagements is true. If i have a 30x30 room, i'll use every inch of it in a fight. Esp if fighting multiple opponents.
What i wont do, ever, is just stand there and trade puncture and slash wounds with my opponent...
Again, this is what you see, because computations are hidden, animations are not shown, and combat development just is not ready yet. In the end, this all should be taken into account and be visible, but not requiring skill from the player.
If you face me and you have 'better stats' but i am still very competent, you bet your but i can beat you in a mobile fight if it breaks my way.
Many, many, many 'superior' warriors have fallen to lowly foot soldiers and men at arms. From the dawn of history on.
This is a nice example of the two I's. It should say, "If you face me, 'the character', and you 'the character' have better stats, but I 'the character and/or player' am still very competent, you 'the player' bet your 'character's' butt, I, 'the PLAYER' can BEAT YOU 'the CHARACTER' in a mobile fight"
Ver 03018 has taken the very STRENGTH of PS, the absolutely FANTASTIC mobile combat, and is trying to relegate itself into another point and click bore-a-thon that requires no skill, actually ENCOURAGES powerleveling, and in essence makes you no more than an interested bystander as your combat is resolved by stats alone, requiring no more than a mouse click of input.
Again, after many more hours ingame, there is widespread hatred of this new rule. Yes....hatred.
This quote shows some sentiments present in many posts (although a bit more strongly here). The thing is, these are opinions, that are possibly shared by many. My opinion may be different, and it is. I do not think the mobile combat is FANTASTIC, nor that it is the very STRENGTH of PS. It should require skill, but character skill, not players. The new combat (which is not finished) may get some people power-leveling, but it would not affect me. Because those may not be the people I would duel with when it is part of RP. Besides, I hope that at some point, there are so many skills, that you cannot level them all to max, making the outcome of a duel not that easy to predict. Again, I understand many players think the previous way of combat was more fun, but that does not mean everyone does. Or even that if everyone who does something likes it, all others would not do it if it were different.
Some of the posts giving an opinion (from both sides) are being attacked not on the opinion, but on the sound of the message. Someone says "it does not fit RP", another replies "We are also RPers". Can we just agree there are different opinions, and try to use our energy to come with suggestions to improve the combat system for everyone, to fit the character, but also be fun to use?
And sorry for this getting so long
Some new posts since I started, one of them says:
Wow, this is just amaizing, 5 pages in less than 24h and do you know what is this thread?
it is bunch of people who are eighter go for it, or complaining. I doubt that a single person who posted up there got convinced to change side. The ones who are comlaining don't listen to those who are "go for it" and the second group sometimes do the same, I gues because they don't like being ignored.
Have fun arguing.
I hope the arguing will stop, and people seeing they are not necessarily all on different sides, just at different stages of combat developement. Some say "It will be great when finished", others say "It is not fun at the moment". Not sure if my post helps though (by adding another page).
