Author Topic: new combat style  (Read 13061 times)

Datruth

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #75 on: February 10, 2007, 07:52:01 pm »
It is unfortunate, Dueling will become pawnage rather than a sport/art form. There is no real challenge or real skill needed to win a duel it has been reduced to levels. The PLers will love it. While the older duelists will be found sitting in the tavern sobbing over their ales remembering the good old days when a duel was honorable. It is the end of the golden age of dueling. with the advent of the machinegunsword attack.

omg, i was laughing so hard when i read that lol ;D :woot: :lol:

It's soo true though.

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We listen to the community, we listen, we try to do what's best.... ~~Our Centrally controlled game

You've heard the community.
We'll wait for the actions, and see if you such up your pride and do what's best.
My bet is, the machinegunsword wins.... :(

I had fun while it lasted guys, you can always check out some of my old vids for a glimpse into the past.

~~Datruth
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Redic

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #76 on: February 10, 2007, 07:58:14 pm »
seems like the duels will be done the same way as they are in other, lesser, RPGs such as silk road, no skill, only levels. tis a sad sad day indeed.

Volund

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #77 on: February 10, 2007, 08:01:24 pm »
I hope we are being heard AND listened to, this thread and all this arguing for nothing...I hope not. gwinn was true when she said no challenge at alll, why not click wait a second and roll a dice? fun right? instead of slashing, jumping running and shooting arrows...yeah *click* IISS SSOOo much better than what it used to be. I like Rp of course, but duelign was a big part, the old combat system had flaws but those were fixed and then replaced with these flaws. It is a sad day redic...another WoW or silkroad...or Runescape...maplestory the same story, but really this game is about fun, lets have some, this thread is about the old dueling which was fanatically awesome.
We all know ylians have the package, the looks, the brain, pretty much all of it, I feel guilty.

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Shakilai

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #78 on: February 10, 2007, 08:04:29 pm »
Very few people seem to understand the underlying argument of "player skill" versus "character skill." I find this disappointing. I also find a lot of the melodramatic "those were days" attitude a turn-off in this thread. Why do you go about moaning as if every feature that gets added is now set in stone, and defines the way PlaneShift will feel in the future? "This is the end of fun duels," "PlaneShift will now be like every other game," etc., etc. If we're posting material for the developers to read, let's post maturely instead of going off into a nostalgia about something in a beta game.

Datruth

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #79 on: February 10, 2007, 08:10:24 pm »
Very few people seem to understand the underlying argument of "player skill" versus "character skill." I find this disappointing. I also find a lot of the melodramatic "those were days" attitude a turn-off in this thread. Why do you go about moaning as if every feature that gets added is now set in stone, and defines the way PlaneShift will feel in the future? "This is the end of fun duels," "PlaneShift will now be like every other game," etc., etc. If we're posting material for the developers to read, let's post maturely instead of going off into a nostalgia about something in a beta game.

I'm just curious... what was so mature about your comment?
Did you really add anything to the arguement?
Do you know why some of the best players in the community are expressing outrage?
Do you know of any reputable players who feel this new system is great, and an improvement?

Please... if they took the graphics away and made it an all text game, you'd defend the PS team to death.
You're loyalty is flawed, the community is what makes PS great.
If something is wrong with a key piece of the game, would you sit back and take it?

Please, let us hear your opinions about the subject, i don't know where you stand, except for telling us to shut up about our opinions.
So please share your opinion with us, we promise we won't tell you to stop talking.

~~Datruth
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I adopt Karyuu.  She might not be new but her skin is so supple, soft and n00b like....  :sweatdrop:

Volund

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #80 on: February 10, 2007, 08:12:34 pm »
the fact that PS is a alpha version means we all need to contribute to make the game better, and I do but the old way of dueling was a whole lot of fun for majority of PS populace
We all know ylians have the package, the looks, the brain, pretty much all of it, I feel guilty.

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drah

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #81 on: February 10, 2007, 08:16:49 pm »
Player Skill vs Character Skill

Why would we have sub-games like the one in Brado's then... if it's all down to JUST the character... wouldn't the character automatically play the game based on a level or a roll of a die??

This is why the char skill vs. player skill thing doesn't hold up as a solid rule of the Planeshift world.. if it does... the devs have made a contradiction to your argument.. and it's sat in Brado's tavern.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 08:21:19 pm by drah »

Shakilai

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #82 on: February 10, 2007, 08:17:41 pm »
Datruth, I noticed that you have a habit of being very hostile and aggressive when someone disagrees with either your opinion or your posting manner, and my personal suggestion would be to lighten up.

I commented on what I thought was unattractive in this thread. As far as I am concerned, we do have the right to our opinions. Notice how I didn't tell anyone to shut up, nor stop talking. I mentioned being disappointed about some posts and offered a suggestion. So don't turn me into something I'm not - an asskisser. I don't know you a whole lot, but you know next to nothing about me - our interaction has been comprised of a few posts on this forum, and you have very little right to make assumptions about me, or my loyalty.

I'm not going to share my opinion on this feature in this thread - this is a hornet's nest that I am not too keen on entering deeper. I know how to forward my thoughts to the developers directly, and have done so. The bickering here is not the sort of atmosphere I consider productive.

Volund

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #83 on: February 10, 2007, 08:25:54 pm »
I am not hostile, I created this thread so the devs would hear ME and US out, I WANT MY OPIONS HEARD anf the same goes FOR EVERYONE ELSE, anyone can give some wisdom here, Im all open  :thumbup:
We all know ylians have the package, the looks, the brain, pretty much all of it, I feel guilty.

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Rayken

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #84 on: February 10, 2007, 08:26:50 pm »
My Inclination is to agree with Shakilai on this (and previously Nurahk, and Ram and Zanz and likely others).  Imagine a game of D&D.  You get moves per round, and for each of those you get to say what your character attempts.  Then a combination of _His_ skill (levels) and _His_  luck (the roll) determines the outcome.  Not _your_ skill and not _your_  luck.  It is my understanding that Planeshift is meant to closely resemble a PnP RPG.  Also, it's been implied in the past (though i don't know where off the top of my head) that so called 'Hit-n-Run' dueling would not always be possible.  The idea, I think, is to make it more like i've described.

The game board is different for this reason: In the duel you determine your character's move, just not the outcome.  On the gameboard, there is no outcome, there are only moves.  Which you determine.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2007, 08:41:45 pm by Rayken »
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lordraleigh

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #85 on: February 10, 2007, 08:31:29 pm »
My Inclination is to agree with Shakilai on this (and previously Nurahk).  Imagine a game of D&D.  You get moves per round, and for each of those you get to say what your character attempts.  Then a combination of _His_ skill (levels) and _His_  luck (the roll) determines the outcome.  Not _your_ skill and not _your_  luck.  It is my understanding that Planeshift is meant to closely resemble a PnP RPG.  Also, it's been implied in the past (though i don't know where off the top of my head) that so called 'Hit-n-Run' dueling would not always be possible.  The idea, I think, is to make it more like i've described.

The game board is different for this reason: In the duel you determine your character's move, just not the outcome.  On the gameboard, there is no outcome, there are only moves.  Which you determine.

Yes, but you can evade your enemy, if willing to risk to receive an "Attack of Opportunity" and run again towards him after it. Thus hit and run tactics are valid, but they should present a new risk to the one trying them.

Roahn

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #86 on: February 10, 2007, 08:34:48 pm »
I think it is interesting that people think that PvP should NOT incorporate the Player's skills as well as the Character's skills. You see, the Player adds in skills more than just physical. It would be practically impossible to completely separate the Player's abilities from the Character, because the Player's tactics and strategy come into play, as well as fast reactions or accurate timing.

There are many ways to use tactics in PvP that don't rely on physical abilities, but on mental. Here are some examples:

I hit someone in a duel, knocking them down to 5%. They can kill you in one hit, so it's very risky to try to hit them a second time, so I fall back and fire an arrow to finish them off from a safe distance. Of course, a few players who have not bothered to train in magic might call me a cheater because I used a tactic they didn't expect, but that's just using tactics.

I fight someone far, far more trained than I. The moment it starts, I run and hide, and shoot missiles or arrows at them, knowing I have no possible way to scratch through their armor. (I did this several times when I was a brand new character). Run, hide, shoot. Run hide, shoot. It isn't easy, it takes a LOT of tactics (on the part of the Player), but it is possible to beat someone who's Character is highly trained in combat, but the Player is not. Again, those that haven't bothered to learn the use of magic and prefer to just stand still and slog it out without tactics might whine.

Using the terrain to your advantage: Someone challenges, you accept, then circle around to a rock, ledge or couter and hop up on it. Now they have to circle around to reach you, so you can jump down as they go past, and whack them while they are facing away.

These are only a few examples of *mental* strategies that incorporate the Player's skills rather than the Character's skills, and can often make the difference between a win and a loss.

I look forward to the day when other spells become useful. Right now, Freeze, Meteor, Weakness, Darkness and many other spells are useless. But suppose they fix the magic system, so Freeze slows you down, Meteor (a very high level spell that is very slow to cast) kills you in one hit if you give the caster enough time to cast it. Suppose Weakness actually weakened you, making your unable to do much damage, and could be cast from more then touch distance away. Suppose Darkness would surround the target, causing them to not be able to see well for a period of time, instead of following the caster (how silly is that? Look! I can use magic to blind myself! Woohoo!)

If and when these other existing spells are made more useful and balanced, I think there will be much more variety in duels, and will give advantage to the Character that takes the time to train them, and to the Player the practices their use, and knows when to use which spell.

Again, it is pretty close to impossible to completely remove the Player's abilities and tactics from the game, without reducing it to a simple "let's roll the dice, and the one who rolls the lower number types /die" type of combat. If this happens, I am 100% sure that I will leave Planeshift, and so will many other of our most active RPers.

-Roahn

Datruth

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #87 on: February 10, 2007, 08:36:06 pm »
Datruth, I noticed that you have a habit of being very hostile and aggressive when someone disagrees with either your opinion or your posting manner, and my personal suggestion would be to lighten up.

Personal attack first... o.k moving on....

I commented on what I thought was unattractive in this thread. As far as I am concerned, we do have the right to our opinions. Notice how I didn't tell anyone to shut up, nor stop talking. I mentioned being disappointed about some posts and offered a suggestion. So don't turn me into something I'm not - an asskisser. I don't know you a whole lot, but you know next to nothing about me - our interaction has been comprised of a few posts on this forum, and you have very little right to make assumptions about me, or my loyalty.

Gee... asking us .....
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". Why do you go about moaning as if"

Doesn't really make us feel you respect our opinions.
And as you so nicely pointed out
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"The bickering here"

If that isn't telling us our words arn't important and serious.... than i have no clue what that is.
And if that isn't a plea trying to get us to stop voicing our "moaning" or "bickering" i don't know what is.
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I'm not going to share my opinion on this feature in this thread - this is a hornet's nest that I am not too keen on entering deeper. I know how to forward my thoughts to the developers directly, and have done so. The bickering here is not the sort of atmosphere I consider productive.

So basically you don't want to share your opinions, and just came down to tell us to stop moaning... that's very productive of you bro.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One last thing:

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Datruth, I noticed that you have a habit of being very hostile and aggressive
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I don't know you a whole lot, but you know next to nothing about me - our interaction has been comprised of a few posts on this forum,

For someone who doesn't know me a whole lot, it's very funny you start mudslinging so early.
Get to know me, i don't bite.

And accusations about one's character... don't give you cookie points. :thumbdown:
Keep that in mind son. ;)

~~Datruth
Truth To Disbelief

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I adopt Karyuu.  She might not be new but her skin is so supple, soft and n00b like....  :sweatdrop:

Shakilai

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #88 on: February 10, 2007, 08:41:56 pm »
Glad to see I wasn't mistaken :) That's exactly what I meant when I made my previous post - I said "I noticed that you have a habit of being very aggressive [...]" (how is that a personal attack, I will never know) and you go on and prove me right.

This is why a lot of players don't like these forums, and I imagine why a lot of the developers remain silent as well. Many people here like antagonizing each other and never enjoy being told that their posting methods are less than agreeable. Maybe if you change your attitude, you will see your opinion and your voice welcomed a lot more. And maybe then others will allow you to speak for them.

Volund

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Re: new combat style
« Reply #89 on: February 10, 2007, 08:44:04 pm »
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Again, it is pretty close to impossible to completely remove the Player's abilities and tactics from the game, without reducing it to a simple "let's roll the dice, and the one who rolls the lower number types /die" type of combat. If this happens, I am 100% sure that I will leave Planeshift, and so will many other of our most active RPers.
Roahn is completely right, I along with many others will leave if this happens, sorry but hey
We all know ylians have the package, the looks, the brain, pretty much all of it, I feel guilty.

bloodedIrishman's alter-ego while stunned by the banhammer.