The Winch -- What are they thinking?

[lordraleigh]

Restricting areas before a reputation system is coded is something like plainly incentivating OOC mass-questing(30 people talking to the same NPC trying their luck, very immersive). Also giving a 100% linear single way to earn access to such places won't be a nice idea eitehr.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Restricting areas before a reputation system is coded is something like plainly incentivating OOC mass-questing(30 people talking to the same NPC trying their luck, very immersive). Also giving a 100% linear single way to earn access to such places won't be a nice idea eitehr.

we are just getting warm and players are impatient. For now there is one way only. I do not expect it shall remain so.

[Valorius Rageway]

No other way huh?

So like restricting it to people with-for instance- maxed cha and int wouldn't work. Or restricting it to people with any number of pre-qualifiers wouldn't work huh?

If you truly believe there is "no other way" then your imagination is seriously lacking.

You would really restrict it by how much people have leveled your stats?

That represents their inherent traits and skills, their "societal eliteness." INDEED it is those with high Cha, and Int that would be in a position to gain admittance to intellectual and political circles.

And i find it funny that some want combat to be "determined by character skill" yet when it comes to gaining acceptance with the social elite stats should mean nothing?

Thou dost maketh no sense, brother of the realm.

[Parallo]

But by the amount of people that do role play and don't have the stats vs. the amount of people that don't even have a character in the proper sence of the word but have every stat maxed it makes little sense for now. Once the systems reworked by all means do it. I don't want to have to go totally OOC and hack at rouges for hours to get into an area I should be in IC.

[Valorius Rageway]

But by the amount of people that do role play and don't have the stats vs. the amount of people that don't even have a character in the proper sence of the word but have every stat maxed it makes little sense for now. Once the systems reworked by all means do it. I don't want to have to go totally OOC and hack at rouges for hours to get into an area I should be in IC.

If i may make an observation based on the "two camps" of PS, the doers and the RPers,  Some of the self-defined "RPers" seem to think they should get a free ride from leveling or learning to actually fight because they "RP".

A character with high charisma and intelligence would have a prohibitive edge over gaining admittance into elite circles. A character who spends his whole life "RPing" without actually DOING THINGS IN GAME TO GAIN REPUTE AND SKILL is a very peculliar creature indeed.

My character has maxed charisma and intelligence. She is a "Super model and rocket-scientist" rolled into one, not to mention a fierce and well respected(and apprently very well known already) warrior as well.

OBVIOUSLY such a character would be the one to gain admittance before a "level 1 weakling" who does nothing all day but talk about the things that others actually DO.

If there is no point in stats, then simply eliminate them(and the majority of the player base at the same time).

The Game some of you seem to want can already be accomplished on an instant messaging program or fantasy based BB. To truly RP all you need is a blank sheet of paper and an imagination.

When i was growing up playing D&D, that's ALL we had. Times change, technology improves.

Now we are fortunate to "have it all rolled into one."

[zhai]

If i may make an observation based on the "two camps" of PS, the doers and the RPers,  Some of the self-defined "RPers" seem to think they should get a free ride from leveling or learning to actually fight because they "RP".

A character with high charisma and intelligence would have a prohibitive edge over gaining admittance into elite circles. A character who spends his whole life "RPing" without actually DOING THINGS IN GAME TO GAIN REPUTE AND SKILL is a very peculliar creature indeed.

My character has maxed charisma and intelligence. She is a "Super model and rocket-scientist" rolled into one, not to mention a fierce and well respected(and apprently very well known already) warrior as well.

OBVIOUSLY such a character would be the one to gain admittance before a "level 1 weakling" who does nothing all day but talk about the things that others actually DO.

If there is no point in stats, then simply eliminate them(and the majority of the player base at the same time).

The Game some of you seem to want can already be accomplished on an instant messaging program or fantasy based BB. To truly RP all you need is a blank sheet of paper and an imagination.

When i was growing up playing D&D, that's ALL we had. Times change, technology improves.

Now we are fortunate to "have it all rolled into one."

As far as I know, you are free to play the game in the way that best suits you. I personally like to keep my stats and RP somewhat related but there's nothing wrong in not training at all or not RPing at all. It's limiting in a way but if that is how you want to play, then you're free to do so. Keep in mind that whatever you do, you got as much right to have fun as the next player.

Anything that is RPed is "granted" by the players around you. If you claim to be a powerful magician only those around you can grant you that. That's because the game mechanics at the moment do not support many skills. Even if you're maxed out in all magic ways, if your RP is deficient or inconsistent, others are not likely to see you as a great wizard.

Same goes with looks and smarts. You are not the only one with maxed stats, so it's not particularly special. I remember a character claiming to be "the most beautiful female in Yliakum". She was the only one who thought that. Maybe she did have an incredibly high charisma, but if the community doesn't agree to it, it doesn't exist.

I think stats are a good reference but you can't make things black or white, especially at the current state of development. It's a matter of balance.

In the particular case of the winch, I doubt personal RP or stats will grant you access or should by any means. How can you measure someone's RP to consider it satisfactory? Who would do that? It would be a subjective thing and open the door for lots of complaints.

[Krann Omins]

I gotta agree with VR, this whole division of text vs mechanics, or players vs roleplayers, is becomming more & more of a pivotal matter dividing the populace...

As I've said before, my experience with rp before this game is limited at best... That being said I recall those rp games on paper, no one would ever start as a very powerful character... they would have a certain potential maximum levels/ranks to start at based on dice rolls or doled out points (like our cp) & beyond that they would be required to succeed at tasks that would earn appropriate experience, at the discretion of their Game Master (like having to earn progression points & trias & practice points at discretion Game Mechanics)...

Before this game, in my albeit limited experiences, i had never heard of a roleplay game where people get to decide their own strengths & skills beyond base beginner sorts of levels in relation to those of others, without someone or something else making final decision... Well, unless you count playing make believe - or maybe the more kinky sort of role-playing...

But i gotta ask--if the idea is to make believe & ignore mechanics when 'rp'ing--then this topic is moot for you, isn't it? : you can rp that you are really at the winch rather than whatever map sector you are in and it should matter as little as your actual stats & skills do...right?...

And also gotta ask: regarding "testers first, players second"; what does text only rp test? the server's chat capacities?

These are rhetorical questions, but i'm guessing people will respond as if they weren't...

[Parallo]

If i may make an observation based on the "two camps" of PS, the doers and the RPers,  Some of the self-defined "RPers" seem to think they should get a free ride from leveling or learning to actually fight because they "RP".

A character with high charisma and intelligence would have a prohibitive edge over gaining admittance into elite circles. A character who spends his whole life "RPing" without actually DOING THINGS IN GAME TO GAIN REPUTE AND SKILL is a very peculliar creature indeed.

My character has maxed charisma and intelligence. She is a "Super model and rocket-scientist" rolled into one, not to mention a fierce and well respected(and apprently very well known already) warrior as well.

OBVIOUSLY such a character would be the one to gain admittance before a "level 1 weakling" who does nothing all day but talk about the things that others actually DO.

If there is no point in stats, then simply eliminate them(and the majority of the player base at the same time).

The Game some of you seem to want can already be accomplished on an instant messaging program or fantasy based BB. To truly RP all you need is a blank sheet of paper and an imagination.

When i was growing up playing D&D, that's ALL we had. Times change, technology improves.

Now we are fortunate to "have it all rolled into one."

Some of these 'doers' spend no time interacting with other characters but have all stats maxed. Should they get in before the people that are known in the community but don't have the time to hack a rouge to death fifty times a day? And I don't think there are many that stand around and talk about people camping enemies in the arena. That's a bit silly.

[lordraleigh]

OK Krann, "Testers first, Players(And ROLEPLAYERS)" second!

I'll make a guild called "Beta-testers" with characters named "TestSubject1" "TestSubject2", etc and we will challenge all the limits of the engine, run around, make a mess over it!

[Proteous]

Well however you access the winch, it goes against any sort ideals that PS has always gone by in the past.. It would seem that the developers are moving the goal posts all of a sudden. {thats thier perogative} I am a well established player and have ben for a few years now. It now seems that it doesnt matter what your stats are, or how good you RP. If you want to access the winch you must become a power leveler and a mind reader all at the same time. with no clues AT ALL we are expected to go around trying to find the right combination of quests to acces the new areas. Some of the new quests REQUIRE that your char has maxed stats in order to partake. and with the new economy that could take many many weeks for some people. New players are not going to want to do this as it doesnt add, but takes away any of the fun of playing.

Also someone mention earlier about the fact that this game is also aimed at children.. i can catagoricaly prove that is deffinitly not so.. I gave my 10 year old a fresh char today.. Now what you have to understan is that she reads novels and is very advanced for her age. She read the player guide first, as I asked, then started playing.. befor long she was asking me for help in understanding some of the games features, i then pointed her in the direction of an NPC that "give me a quest" doesnt work with but does have a quest.. Now remember she read the player guide and knew that she should talk with the NPC's.. 15 mins she was at the NPC befor i finaly told her what to say. "Thats stupid, noone talks like that" she said.  

i know i am going to get ripped to pieces by some of the idiots that frequent these forums, but i just had to say that whatever you guys are thinking about access to the new area is simply rediculous, a joke even.. i am an ineligent person, and i know many people IG that are really inteligent and understand the games quest system much better tha I do, and even they are stumped..

Come on guys get your act together..

Proteous waits for the insults to come flying

[lordraleigh]

Just to add some things:

Rich characters that would have access to the Winch won't commonly do menial errands for others(Most quests are such)

There's no "underground" way to reach the Winch

If it really depends on maxed Stats as Proteous, it contradicts fully the nature of PS as a roleplay focused game. This quest then is better for a game like *cough* Runescape.

[zhai]

If access to the winch requires a certain "level" or "renown" within the community it would be too hard to establish a fair rule that is congruent to the original idea behind the game. Getting a quest seems to be a good start but there shouldn't be any stat related requirements. Everyone can say "give me a quest". Making it hard to get it by some sort of "window of opportunity" is not, in my opinion, a bad thing necessarily. Part of trying to be realistic is that you can't enter anywhere you want or do everything there is to do with only one character.

Tweaking the NPC IQ and the chat system are things that affect everything in the game, not just this particular quest. The difference is this one puts the problem in the spotlight. So much work!

[Nurahk]

Roleplayers versus Powerlevelers
Roleplayers versus Duelers...

I love the seperation.  It's what makes this community so fun to poke around with.

But think of it this way, how long should it take to become beautiful?  You've got to trimm the fat, sculpt the muscle, find the hairstyle, buy the clothes...the list goes on.  But, Valorius, how long did it take for you to max out charisma?  4 days?  5?

Same goes for intelligence, although, I'd say moreso.  You shouldn't really be able to level intelligence noticably, but that's a whole other discussion.
And, the same goes for most of those skills.

Roleplayers who do nothing but talk are exactly that.  Characters in this world who, probably due to game mechanics, have nothing to do.  They won't mine, they are roleplaying a more "refined character", they won't fight, they are playing a pacifist.  I have nothing against these Roleplayers, although...they should have completed plenty of the quests.

Then you have Roleplayers who train.  This is where a line is drawn, if you were training, how many beasts would you kill daily?  I imagine it is a fraction of how many you actualy kill.  This is where people come in with "My character is a warrior", yeah, well, so is pretty much every other character.  And if you are into combat and such, let me tell you this.  There is very little chance that there will be much more focus on it.  Talad wants the game to focus more on roleplaying people than roleplaying heroes.  Atleast, that's what I gathered from a conversation we had recently (I won't quote now, I don't have his permission).

The best "warrior" Roleplayers balance the talking and the training, the worst ignore the talking and fighting hard for worst place are those who ignore the training.

These are rhetorical questions, but i'm guessing people will respond as if they weren't...

Haha, nice to see you don't have any dellusions when it comes to the community

Your point is a good one but you shouldn't use testing as an excuse to become an amazingy powerful character.  I have a character who I barely use, he's there for testing out the bugs that might change my stats or inventory and so forth.  He doesn't interact at all IC and he avoids pretty much everybody, logging in only to check something Nurahk found and logging out the second the job is complete.  He's been deleted twice

Using the excuse "I'm testing the leveling system" is the same as "I found this exploit that gave my character 700 strength": It's using OOC means to further your IC character.

[Proteous]

Oh and one other thing, when examining the doors to the winch, they tell you to go see Raithen.. however when asked about the winch, he has no idea what you are talking about!.. go figure.

[eldoth_terevan]

The RP vs Powerleveler thing is old. The game is going to decide it as it develops, not the bickering. But I like what they did with the Winch. It took me a long time to really get into the quest system. Now that I have, I rather like it. Fishing for responses from the npcs is interesting, and not that hard, as they all seem to follow certain patternings of words. It is proper that the winch should be accessed by a quest. I would expect that certain quests will take stats and skills in the future to allow for different branchings within the storyline based on character development. I imagine that this is planned, and it would be interesting. Actually, the quests and settings (and architecture!) implied by the NPCs in the winch have really added another level of depth to the game that I am definitely enjoying. Its good work.