[GUILD] The Ale Saints

[Xus]

[edit] Ignore this one, I accidentally double-posted...

[Xus]

There is no fossil record in Yliakum and therefore no reson to suppose that things evolve. Atheism is simply impossible to justify in this game.

It's not quite an atheistic view.  It's more like:

*Annera shrugs and says: I believe in something, that humongous differences of knowledge and evolution between two beings will lead the less evolved being to worship the more evolved one as a god, that is what I believe in.

Like Talad and Laanx are simply the bog dogs to us insects, but the universe itself is God, in a sense, because that is initially what everything came from.  But I suppose I should have read up more on the history of Yliakum to get a sense of what the popular view actually is.

[Parallo]

Actually there is also no reason to suppose that Talad and Laanx came from the Universe. There is no big bang here, nothing that you know from observing the real world is to be taken for granted here like evolution. Talad and Laanx created creatures. Creation seems to be true then.

[lordraleigh]

There is no fossil record in Yliakum and therefore no reson to suppose that things evolve. Atheism is simply impossible to justify in this game.

Then why is there the choice of atheism on the "Character Creation" screen?

Unlike in the real world, atheism in PS would be really much more philosophical than scientific.

Lastly lets take a look on Greek philosophers

Atomic theory: Where could come the reason to suppose that the matter is composed by atoms? Does everything need to be empirical to become an idea?

[Xus]

Well according to Rene Descartes, if I remember correctly, it works inevitably down to only a single being perfect enough for self-creation.  We can't have a bunch of beings perfect enough to just go poppin' up all over the place uninvited (in this case, Talad and Laanx).  But what I'm suggesting is sort of like the Theology of Tolkien's Silmarillion, where there is a supreme, self-creating god who created the other gods (in this case, that would be the omnipotent Universe herself), and then the other gods created the inhabitants of the earth.

[Parallo]

in this case, that would be the omnipotent Universe herself

Or Vodúl.

[Xus]

in this case, that would be the omnipotent Universe herself

Or Vodúl.

But I suppose I should have read up more on the history of Yliakum to get a sense of what the popular view actually is.

 

[Parallo]

Missed these last time.

Then why is there the choice of atheism on the "Character Creation" screen?

I guess they didn't think it through.

Unlike in the real world, atheism in PS would be really much more philosophical than scientific.

Without science in the real world there is no alternative but the god hypothosis.

Anyway, good luck with connecting atheism to drink. Countless people have tried before like they did with facism, communism, racism and sexism.

[lordraleigh]

@Parallo: I won't have my character scrapped away because of a straight-jacket based on opinions going against what is supposed to be canon.

There's a settings team over there and they obviously know about the Settings or they would not participate on PS Settings development.

If there's the choice of making an atheist character, it is because atheism as a belief exists.

Without science in the real world there is no alternative but the god hypothosis.

Are you sure?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#History

Although the term atheism originated in 16th-century France, ideas that would be recognized today as atheistic existed before the advent of Classical antiquity. Eastern philosophy has a long history of nontheistic belief, beginning in the 6th centuryBC... Western atheism has its roots in ancient Greek philosophy

Anyway, good luck with connecting atheism to drink. Countless people have tried before like they did with facism, communism, racism and sexism.

I have to agree with that. It seems to be willing to create a negative image on atheism, either unvoluntarily or intentionally

[Parallo]

Good lord! Justify it then.

[lordraleigh]

Who created the Ylians, Xachas, Klyros, Diaboli, Dermorians and Nolthrirs?

Wasn't the existence of surface known by the first inhabitants of Yliakum? Or how else would the name "Azure Sun" exist?

What about the Xachan "old traditions" that are mentioned?

The first and second answers is more than enough to open space to philosophical debate and to justify atheism as a point of view.

[Parallo]

That justifies believing that Laanx and Talad do not exist? I think you have a wrong definition.

[lordraleigh]

I am meaning atheism as the belief that Talad and Laanx are not truly gods, but only superior beings.

The Ylians, Xachas, etc. doesn't have an answer about where they really came from or how did they appear. Talad and Laanx only brought them to Yliakum through portals. Thus it must bring some of them a questioning about their origins.

[Parallo]

Well you are then subject to the infinate regress we have to day save without the handy way out of the big bang and evolution. What created them and what created them and what created them etc. etc. The only terminator in Yliakum is a god.

[Idoru]

I really did like that story, I think it was very well written.

As for the atheism thing, its allowed in the settings due to it being in character creation.

As for your original reasons for forming the guild, I have to agree with what someone said earlier that alot of guild out there are very communicative, very closely knit and from the sound of it are exactly what you seem to have been missing about the guilds in PS.

I wish you good luck with your guild though ;o)


[Edit]

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. -Arthur C. Clarke

I think this may well apply to Talad and Laanx.