Define: Power-leveling?

[bilbous]

This comment is not strictly on topic as it is an observation of the flip-side, what you might call power role-playing I hesitate to call it god-modding as it would apply to any role player who refuses to train. If you have no combat skills and you do not always hire a bodyguard when traveling in the wilds outside of town, it seems to me that you are taking advantage of the game mechanics no less than lone ulber hunters. What I mean by this is that you are relying on the fact that the wandering monsters do not wander and even if they get pulled from their spawn point none of them can catch a character who is running. Does that make any sense?

[lordraleigh]

Does all characters have to be miners and fighters or it'll be godmodding?

About hiring a bodyguard.

Not every character is rich enough for that, and I believe most of places are relatively safe, and if the movement speed of the monsters is the way it is now, almost anyone can outrun an Ulbernaut or Trepor

[bilbous]

That was the point though all critters move at the same rate and all characters can move faster than that. There are trepors in front of the passes to both Ojaveda and the Bronze Doors standing around stupidly. It might be possible to go back and forth between towns but realistically attacks should occur and the defenseless should get mangled or killed on occasion.

[Seytra]

I agree that there are risks to travelling that aren't reflected in the game ATM. Yet, we are talking about the connections between major places in Yliakum, Hydlaa (capital) and Ojaveda (trading center), so they can be assumed to be pretty safe IMO. The BD section is a different matter as it will be a lot further away in the end, so travelling to or from there often is unrealistic by itself. Deviating from the roads is something else entirely.

Also, in terms of RP, one doesn't travel as often as one does in terms of game mechanics IMO. I don't usually RP travelling often, anyway, even though I could.

Also, what are we talking about here? Are we talking about that a librarian will likely not travel alone unless it's really safe or really pressing, or are we merely talking about players who RP fighting skills that their characters don't have? In the first case I agree, but in the latter case I obviously disagree (if anything, it could be seen as countering imprecise game mechanics by imprecise game mechanics). For example, I still miss a way to do an emergency sprint. Right now, you might be too exhausted to move while the Ulbernaut walks towards you. I don't think that'd happen IRL.

My view may certainly be coloured by the fact that I find combat in RPGs to be a bother most of the time, rather than entertaining, because it becomes excessive rather quick.

[lordraleigh]

That was the point though all critters move at the same rate and all characters can move faster than that. There are trepors in front of the passes to both Ojaveda and the Bronze Doors standing around stupidly. It might be possible to go back and forth between towns but realistically attacks should occur and the defenseless should get mangled or killed on occasion.

Commerce would be halted in this case, and people would hardly leave their cities making things stagnant(Unless some kind of public or private transport system where you could buy tickets for travels - perhaps carriages pulled by ryunaaks - were the main transportation method). How could Ojaveda be a bustling commercial center if most are too scared to leave their cities?
And in my opinion most if not all powerful hostile creatures should be placed on the proximities of the entrance to the Stone Labyrinths(I'm not sure if the amount of creatures inside the arena that spawn continually could be considered as IC).

[bilbous]

Take a look at the Silk Road ( the real one ) it traveled through terrain with some of the most ferocious beasts on earth. They did it by bunching together in caravans and hiring warriors. Others did it by being able to fight, some relied on luck. Not all survived.

I really do not want to get into a big thing here but there are rogues -- one in the pass outside of Hydlaa and five last I looked in the area on the other side of that pass on the way to Oja too that stand around calling each other pinhead when realistically they would be setting traps and picking off the easy prey. If you want to role play fighting skills you really should be able to fight what you can reasonably expect to come across. Unless perhaps you occasionally role-play the encounter with such things and end up in the DR once in a while but then you can just role play going to that town and never actually do it in the first place.

[Garon]

so I'll send an invitation for all the players of RUNESCAPE to try PS and leave as this game focus on the "features" rather than on Roleplay.

Baaaad idea.  I thought I just escaped that horror, don't bring it after me

---
Other then that, I think a PL'er is someone who levels a lot without a good reason, or with an unoriginal one.  I can see someone working extremely hard (obsessively) for a short while to get to be able to kill someone (one person or a small, specific group) who they hate but cannot kill.  I can see someone maintaining their character at a high skill level because they are a soldier, and are constantly training whenever they are not working, so that they can continue to be more and more valuable to prospective employers.  I cannot see someone constantly training just to beat everybody else, or "be the best", unless they were a member of some group that holds competitions often among it's members (such as a gladitorial group where position in the group, and therefore the lucrativeness of the matches you take part in, is determined by a monthly tournament or the like).  It doesn't make sense for someone to work hard for no gain other then being better then others (and don't talk about the loot, that's not really IC either, since how many rogues would have silverweaves and not have retired?  Yet a thug and a rogue have both had silverweave short swords on their dead bodies when I searched them... strange, isn't it?).  If they can come up with a relatively new reason that makes sense to an rper, then it's IC training.  If they can't, then it's PLing.

[Seytra]

Well, Ojaveda itself is infested with rogues, something that is by far not realistic either. It has the distinct feel of a doomed city, with most shops deserted, rogues wandering freely and not a single guard in sight. Does this mean that Brintec is a fierce fighter, so that he not only survives without bodyguard, but even is able to keep his shop open without any defense at all?

Also, the distance between Hydlaa and Ojaveda is short (though longer than it is ATM). Also, the first and second levels are more or less farmland according to the settings. This means that most places are not infested with wild beasts.
All in all it seems like the MOBs got put there because there isn't much space.

So what can one expect to come accross? IMO, at night, a clacker or a rat. Anything else would be a rare thing on the major roads. In daylight, probably a lot less even. Both Ojaveda and Hydlaa have a garrison, so they'll make sure the vincinity of their cities and the important roads are free from marauding bands, too.

@ Garon: Agreed. And yes, the loot distribution indeed makes one wonder at times. Especially if the rogue has a silverweave sword, then how come he didn't do the appropriate damage? Was he not using it because he feared to degrade it? That, and that you can loot money from a Trepor (swallowed it alongside the original owner?)...

[bilbous]

Actually I thought power leveling referred to an activity whereby a lowlevel character groups with a high level one in order to leech xps off of them but the prevailing sentiment of this thread seems to be anyone who spends more time fighting the most valuable creatures with respect to pp than doing anything else. What then do you call someone who spends the majority of their time crafting? Is that not a facet of the same thing?

As far as Oja goes maybe it is actually a rogue town and people doing business there are either members of the gang or pay protection.

Never any wolves or cougars eating livestock in farm country you say?

[zanzibar]

I define power-leveling as whatever I happen to disapprove of at a particular moment in time.

These days I don't really see in terms of "roleplayers versus powerlevelers".  Now I'm all about "in character behaviour and motivations versus out of character behaviour and motivations".

[Seytra]

That's the usual definition of PL, yes. However, in PS "PL" has acquired the meaning that you extracted from the thread. PL in the original sense does also take place in PS, though.

Regarding the wild animals stealing livestock: this certainly can be assumed to happen in PS. However, won't these animals rather flee when the farmer approaches them than attack, and avoid fire (campfires)? Also, this likely is much less of a problem (if one at all) in the center of the empire than in the outer regions. Especially if you consider that the settings says that the first two levels are farmed extensively, being the only farmable soil in Yliakum. This means that most, if not all, natural habitat of wild animals would have been converted to farmland so they would be more or less extinct. Also, if the inhabitants were able to exclude everyone else from the first two levels once upon a time, to the degree that it almost lead to a war, then they surely can remove trepors from the main roads?

Edit: also, we can safely assume that there will be taverns scattered around the main roads, so travellers are safe at night even if there are clackers or rats roaming the place at nighttime.

[bilbous]

And yet when you actually make the trek between you see a lot of land that is unsuited for crops, good for grazing perhaps and then there is this

By those statements, there should be no barrens, only endless farms and ranches.

No, it states that farming is only possible on the first two levels. It doesn't state that farming is possible *everywhere* on the first two levels. The first two levels HAVE arable land: they're just not completely comprised of it.

Also we have had stipulated a medieval setting which to me implies that the large beasts have not yet been hunted to (near-)extinction and the roads are only as safe as the last patrol left them and how long ago that was. A large predator might take his chances on the lone farmer if he was hungry enough or had some equivalent to rabies.

I am still interested in your opinion of the crafters place. Is a power leveler merely someone who focuses on combat skills? or does it matter if he fights to get pps which he spends on crafting? I do not suppose it does, but what if he does nothing but craft?

[lordraleigh]

And yet when you actually make the trek between you see a lot of land that is unsuited for crops, good for grazing perhaps and then there is this

By those statements, there should be no barrens, only endless farms and ranches.

No, it states that farming is only possible on the first two levels. It doesn't state that farming is possible *everywhere* on the first two levels. The first two levels HAVE arable land: they're just not completely comprised of it.

Also we have had stipulated a medieval setting which to me implies that the large beasts have not yet been hunted to (near-)extinction and the roads are only as safe as the last patrol left them and how long ago that was. A large predator might take his chances on the lone farmer if he was hungry enough or had some equivalent to rabies.

[Garile]

Question. If Rp is encouraged and you don't want to encourage powerleveling. Isn't it strange to make several quests that ask for ulberparts? seeing it's really hard killing those at lower levels?

[Karyuu]

"Powerleveling" here means building your character with OOC motivations. If you get a quest that asks you to train your character to be able to kill a powerful beast, that's not powerleveling. That's playing the game