Oldies

[Gwinn Ravenn]

he is referring to being able to hit your opponent with a precise hit. or as people have coined the phrase "drahlianed" and it required a considerable amount of skill. it isnt a trick.  and I am all for rolling the dice but good luck getting people to do it. the dueling system is supposed to be based on our stats. so. if your not using a glitch, if your working within the coding of the game it isn't cheating. in a table top rp game you have to imagine running around, roll the dice. EVEN in a table top game you can hit and kill your opponent before they have a chance to strike back. I would like to ad, just as it is passable to make a very precise hit it is also possable to counter that same attack. It is possable to avoid being drahlianed if you too are skilled.

[lordraleigh]

In most role playing games, combat is decided by tactics and dice rolls.  Tactics in Planeshift will mean the use of magic and deciding what weapons and armour to use against your oponent.

The arcade elements of combat, as they exist presently, are cheating and OOC.

Bah! That is usually too mindless, it usually involves point and click - wait a lucky roll - YOU WON!

Tactics should include terrain advantages, formations and/or morale giving specific boosts to certain rolls in "guild" wars, laying ambushes, making traps, positioning and deploying the "guild mates" properly in the battlefield, shifting combat styles(fencing, *cough* "parry mode", "power attack" *cough*), using special combat skills, using the environment to your advantage, etc.

[zanzibar]

I thank you for your "suggestion" and give it the importance it deserves.

I doubt it.  Let's find out though...

Hit and run........ If you don't know it is coming then it is hit and run. If you accept a challenge then be ready!

Gee, how did I know you'd troll and spam and whine instead of doing a search?  I must be psychic.

If it is a glitch. stat boosting or any other illegal means to give yourself an edge THAT is cheating. If it is a technique acquired through practice and skill it is NOT cheating.

You can be skilled at cheating.  You can get better at cheating with practice.

Perhaps running around is not acceptable by those who wish you to stand there because they are maxed and I  am not. perhaps I should burn my SW's if my opponent doesn't have them too. Perhaps I should give my opponent first hit then ask politely if I may please hit them back??

Perhaps you're stupid.  So many questions, so little time!

You accept a challenge, you must be prepared, for anything,  to die. If not, if you lose to a more skilled player then accept it gracefully the same as you accepted the challenge.

Hit and run attacks exploit some mechanics of the game in order to bypass other mechanics of the game.  It's cheating to use them.

In the real world, if I would get into a fight, you better believe I am going to try to get them before they get me. The game is not different. So long as it is not glitching, or stat boosting beyond what game allows it is not cheating, if the duel is topside. If you don't Like the fact someone can out duel you thats your opinion, but that is all it is. You don't like it. You can either learn how to duel, Stop accepting challenges, or say it is you opinion. But to call a legitimate technique cheating that just isn't right.

Planeshift is not the real world.  It's a game.

[lordraleigh]

Planeshift is not the real world.  It's a game.

C00l d00d! Now I can make a character named "1337Warrior" cuz t'is a game and realism doesn't matter!

[zanzibar]

Planeshift is not the real world.  It's a game.

C00l d00d! Now I can make a character named "1337Warrior" cuz t'is a game and realism doesn't matter!

Realism is why there's no magic in PS.


Further, hit and run attacks exactly mirror combat in real life.

[lordraleigh]

Realism is why there's no magic in PS.

Yes, but lack of realism on the sense of a convincing and immersive world is bad for keeping people IC.

Further, hit and run attacks exactly mirror combat in real life.

Backstabbing someone and running away is combat as well, although considered dishonorable.

[zanzibar]

Uh, what?  Hit and run attacks, as they exist in PS, simply aren't realistic.  Realism is not an argument that can be used in their defense.

[lordraleigh]

Uh, what?  Hit and run attacks, as they exist in PS, simply aren't realistic.  Realism is not an argument that can be used in their defense.

I am defending another form, much more literal, of  "hit and run"(surprise attack and run as hell if the target doesn't die), and realistically trying to run away in the middle of a fighting would give the enemy an opportunity to strike you easily as I said before, making this tactic pretty limited and only useful when a retreat is really needed(Although from a medieval values point of view, yielding would be much more honorable than running away).

[Gwinn Ravenn]

disagreeing with you isn't; trolling or spamming. and I wasn't the one whining, that would be you sir. 

It is not cheating. there is absolutely no exploitation involved. just skill.

You have quoted just about every line of my post and yet have not proven anything, other than your crude ability to name call. . I am not surprised. Those who have little substance often resort to such tactics.
Whine when you die call it cheating if you must. Stand still and wack away. Because we all know in the real world no one would think to move out of the way of an oncoming attack. We could not dream to have a game that could mirror real combat, that would give an unfair advantage to those who might combine rp and game play. We can have people being creative in a rp game that would be unthinkable. Nor would it be the slightest bit fair to actually need a bit of player skill aside from just clicking away. Goodness no. It must be all levels after all otherwise it would waste all those countless hours of power leveling. It would be unfair  and an outrage for those who might be skilled beyond the clicking of a mouse to have a fighting chance against a stronger opponent. Why the very thought of it.. I see now why you would be in a tizzy. Please oh great one  forgive the insolence of my thoughts, that I dare to disagree with you. 
How can we even think that having a combat system that is completly unique to PS would be a good thing. It would be far better to have the same exact system as every other game that includes pvp. stand click die. Yes I see the wisdom in that.. much better, more fun and of course fair for all. *sigh*

[Suno_Regin]

...How is this already 3 pages?

[zanzibar]

disagreeing with you isn't; trolling or spamming. and I wasn't the one whining, that would be you sir. 

It is not cheating. there is absolutely no exploitation involved. just skill.

It's exploiting the game mechanics.  It's using OOC skill.  It's cheating.  Do a search on the forum if you still don't understand why you're wrong.  By continuing to spam this thread and by refusing to do a search for this topic, you are trolling and whining.


By the way, dodging is already built into the game mechanics, you genius. (sigh)

[Garon]

Uh, what?  Hit and run attacks, as they exist in PS, simply aren't realistic.  Realism is not an argument that can be used in their defense.

As far as how it's player skill alone, no, it's not realistic.

As far as realism goes in a fight, it is realistic.  Duels or other one against one fights are not often "I'll stand here, you stand there, and we'll wack away at each other until one of us dies, trying to block or dodge without ever backing up or moving forwards", they are backing up, moving forwards, trying to get an edge on the opponent and keep them from being able to hit you.  The system in Planeshift doesn't well mirror this (no RPG system does, as far as I've the ones I've played, although Zelda games sort of have the right idea, although I haven't played them in a while), since there isn't a character "dueling" skill, or a character "battlefield fighting" skill, it's based solely on the player's skill at moving his or her character around.

The new combat system, from what I've heard, offers a sort of balance between the two:  the "hit and run attacks" still work, but the defendant can hit the person as they charge at them as long as they are facing in the right direction (since it's harder for the other duelist to time both their attacks and their opponents responses), which is useful and realistic, since as you jump in to attack someone, that someone is likely to respond by trying to stab you. (this is from the descriptions I've heard of it, I haven't done much dueling recently--in fact, at all, since the new system came out, which I'll have to try out)  I think the only problem is running through your opponent, which could be solved by making any players you can openly attack (enemy guild's members, opponent duelists, and the like) solid, so that the whole "run, hit, continue on through" thing is impossible (since that's really unrealistic:  I mean, you run, you hit them, and before they can hit back you go through them like the twins in the matrix, except without the cool effects or the power to actually have done that as far as setting goes--maybe a later spell will let you go through things, and that would apply to them as well, but not quite yet folks ).

Of course, if all the npcs you could attack were made solid, that could cause various issues (like "How do I get to the mine if I can't pass that Ulbernaught in the way", or "why did those people like up those ulbernaughts right across the entrance to the bronze doors?"), so I don't think that's a good idea.

By the way, dodging is already built into the game mechanics, you genius. (sigh)

As far as I can tell, that's dodging like sidestepping their lunge, or jumping over their low cut, ducking their high cut, stepping back slightly (note the slightly, the moving I was talking about higher isn't "slightly") to avoid their cut towards your ribs, moving your hand out of the way when they try to cut at that, and the like.  There are more kinds of dodging an attack then that (and less agile people or those who are less skilled with their use of armor would probably use those more often).

[Gwinn Ravenn]

Cuz people don't move around in real life? We would just you know stand there glued to one spot and wack at each other.  yes dodging is built in but running is not. you have to actually ... well move. you know you, your ooc self.. Controls you character. just like when you have a conversation your ooc self thinks of what to say and then you type what your character would say.
If your character would run around screaming mommy while someone is attacking you then that is what you make your character do, even tho you might wack them with a 2x4. On the other hand say your character is a duelist, they are going to have skill and pizazzz. How wonderful  running duel, leaping onto bookshelves  *swish* jumping onto a staircase *swash*.... dodge AND step.... block and quick run to evade your opponents next swing.....  I have yet to see a real sword fight with two people standing in one spot. you don"t just dodge and block you also step  and run and even sometimes leap. It adds a bit of realism to the rp of a machinical game. So yeah it is you ooc self saying my character would not only dodge they would also jump onto the shelf. My ooc self mat decide that they are not a nice person and come at you from behind. *wack* when myself my real self would never do such a thing. So it is not ooc, is it. the ability of the player to have control to have an active part in the duel make for better rp around the duel and much more interesting. than click click click....

If we can move our characters and run then we should.  I am not winning nor spamming. I am commenting and responding.. you demand I do research. well lol. You are still amusing, I thank you for confirming the first rule as always you to not cease to disappoint.

[Seytra]

So it is not ooc, is it. the ability of the player to have control to have an active part in the duel make for better rp around the duel and much more interesting. than click click click....

Lol, the duelling system has nothing to do with RP. What gave you that odd misconception? Just that you can jump and run through your opponent, that you knew when a weapon (not a character!) was going to hit, that you can continuously keep stopping, sprint, stop, sprint... without even slowing down before stopping, or speeding up before sprinting... what of this is in any way connected to RP? You can't seriously think that hit&run is employed only by those who are agile and swift. Everyone does it, even if they had only 1 in AGI. Proves how much it resembles (or betters ) RP, let alone ties in with the game mechanics.

Also, you haven't yet answered how this can be the way it should be done, considering that the devs very recently changed the game to make this harder to do? I think that if they are trying to make this harder to do, then it can be assumed pretty much that it isn't wanted...
BTW, doing the dance will surely become implemented later. However, since the system already does all the calculations, there is nothing for the player left to do. Would it help you if there was an additional combat message saying "X tries to hit you but you run out of range"?
Then again, all these arguments have been presented before, and all you're doing is to claim "It's realistic!" when it isn't. We might consider thinking about maybe talking about using this argument when there is a full-fledged physics engine that deals with frequent, rapid accellerating and slowing down, terrain structure, collisions, imprecise targetting while moving, etc., pp..

I say let the server take control until the char dies, wins or yields. It's the only way to keep people from exploiting their keyboard mashing skills from their FPSes. BTW, I, too, like FPSes. I just don't think it's the right paradigm for an RPG.

Edit: BTW, "working within the coding of the game" may not be cheating, but it sure as hell can be exploiting. And that is what this is. You are exploiting a weakness of unfinished code to gain an unfair advantage over the opponent. Same effect, different name.

[Gwinn Ravenn]

How can it not be part of the rp??? everything my character does is part of rp? as far as people running and hiting not being part of rp. it absolutely can be.  say my character is evil... I'm not just going to stand there and have a nice polite duel. nooooo I'm going to try and get you quick. especially if i am weak.. it would be the only chance of survival. "Oh noo you've cornered me>> *wack and dash*: run as fast as my feet will carry me and hope i can out run you if I didn"t happen to get you" It most certainly can be part of the rp.
"oh noo here you come again>> *run and swing* hope i got him." just as much a part of the rp as  "nooo mooomy  ahhhhhhh *RUN RUN RUN RUN* if pvp isn't part of your RP then why do it at all. It is an rp game.