Remove duels from the game. (This is not a joke.)

[zanzibar]

Your wrong, try your theory in front of a Ubernaught or a King Tefu.
In your eyes, the fact that you can outmaneuver these is irrelevent.
You see a dodge as a hit_and_run when in fact its a momentary evasion of one single attempt at a hit.
Perhaps our ancestors were supposed to stand in front of Mammoths and respect "the game mechanics".
Seriously, what you suggest is OOC.

i. You aren't outmaneuvering the NPCs.  You're running by them so that they don't have time to hit you because the game is coded for stationary combat.

ii. Hit and run attacks aren't even slightly realistic.  In real life, they would grab you or hit you as you run by.

iii. You aren't dodging.  Dodging is already coded into the game with stationary combat in mind.  That's why the armor skills exist.

[Unnamed_Source]

In your eyes, the fact that you can outmaneuver these is irrelevent.
You see a dodge as a hit_and_run when in fact its a momentary evasion of one single attempt at a hit.
Perhaps our ancestors were supposed to stand in front of Mammoths and respect "the game mechanics".
Seriously, what you suggest is OOC.

There's A bug in the works that prevent mobils from running To make it fair, the next time you hunt an ulber, WALK and DO NOT RUN. then the both of you will be in equal footing.

Actually here's an idea, disable the run feature when in combat.

Though I much perfer to see ulbers RUN the "hunters" over. Even if I don't witness it in character, the flame posts lighting up the forum would be funny enough.

[zanzibar]

Yeah.  Ulbers should be able to run at 125% the speed of a player, and they should be able to turn around at lightning speed.



Edit:  Got into another duel today.  It was just a random challenge someone sent me without any explanation... the guy I killed danced all over the place trying to get behind me etc.  Tons of three point turns (just like the way people move in real life).  Is this supposed to be fun?

[Under the moon]

On the subject of Dash-n-Slash, it is unrealistic to think the person doing the dashing has all the advantages. They are running, so have less balance, and poorer aim. Running, in effect, is a stance in itself. The person not moving can have better balance, and choose his moves more carefully.

If this combat system was left in, I would change how it worked. The concept is simple. If both combatants are in a fighting stance, and run at each other, the server would give them -both- a move every time they came close enough to hit, even if it did not show up on your client yet. Dash-N-Slash would then become exactly like stationary combat, just with pauses as the players backed off from each other. In addition, running at the instant of attack would lower your defense and accuracy. Walking would also, but to a lesser extent.

These are stated as improvements to the existing system, which I am not so fond of in the first place. Timing hits based on lagtimes is not my idea of fun.

[Unnamed_Source]

In all visual MMOs I've seen players move their chracters like they are parallel parking. I'm even guilty of that. To think that you can run foward and  backwards with out a mistep and fall is funny. Even in the NFL/NBA, I've seen player trip up on themselves and fall, these are athletes, the best of the best. But in MMOs stuff like that never happens cause it would be a pain in the ...  just to code those random events. And then to hear all the moaning and whining when characters start falling down is even worse.

[Garile]

*giggles at the thought of all the whining of people*

Please do code it in then

But anyhow dueling is silly at the moment. It's so unbalanced one or two tweaks wont even bring it close to making it balanced, so this talking about one solution or the other is kind of funny in my eyes, becuase to make it balanced you would need a list of several small changes I think. These big changes I feel wont make it more balanced, just like this last one didn't.

[Unnamed_Source]

Baby steps.

This game is still in an alpha stage. Version 2.0 can come and go and it can still be in an alpha stage if not everything works. The point being, this is the time to code and test things out. even fixing something that is inherently broken the object is not to make it the final version(for crying out loud, PS ain't Microsoft) the small fixes and patches might eventually lead to a whole new system, these small ideas and fixes might actually give insight to how the new system might look.

Even if they are eventually a waste of time and scrapped by something better, their input is to show what works and what doesn't and that's their contribution.

[Garile]

*twirls her tail*

In my opinion these one hit kills make it really hard to make any comments on what would be good as fixes and what not, specially if it has already been said they are not intended. This would mean you would atleast have to make it so highly leveled persons don't kill eachother that fast before one can make sound conclusions about the rest.

Just my opinion though

[Unnamed_Source]

Sorry I haven't dueled since the last person aI tangoed with gave me an epileptic attack.

But if what you say is true.

If two character with the same high levels in all regards can kill each other in one hit, first come first served, then yes there's a fundamental flaw in the works, Like bringing an Atom bomb to an old western stand off, even if you give Abram tanks to each, the one that fires last is nuked. Then armor/dodging/ect in fights have to be brought up to scale or damage down.

As for the other bits, stick'em in while you're at it. They won't hurt an already flawed system and we might see improvements in other regards. And you can always take them out.

[Krann Omins]

I dunno G, I dislike dying from a single hit almost as much as i dislike being bullied or picked on... Unfortunately both are pretty realistic... someone hits me properly with an axe or sword, or even a somewhat skilled person with a dagger--much as i may dislike it--I'm dead... if they are holding one in each hand & hit me with one after the other in fast succssion? I'm not just dead, i can't have an open casket... Regarless how agile, strong, (en?)durable, or skilled i may be with any form of armor--unless i block or dodge i should have more than 3/4 chance of death... well unless hit on foot or hand (but even then considering whatever appendage they may cripple makes me 1/2 as likely to be able to defend myself against getting killed with the next hit, it's not like showing me getting hit more changes anything--on a different but related note--how great would it be if a powerful enough hit to a hand makes that hand drop its item? I mean a hit to the hand shouldn't kill really unless it goes thru to wrist, which still takes a while, or thru whole arm & into chest thru shouulder--but when hit for that much damage on the hand it would be neat if you took 3/4 as much hp damage & have to drop item--how's that as a motivator to avoid pointless fights?)

to reply to the other stuff:

that last post there--umm to be honest I'm wondering with npc client [from what i'd read lately] being a real pain of late, how many ACTUALLY maxed chars are there these days... you know with that... newish stuff, that... shouldn't.. really be... discussed...y'know? --For all people know it could be balanced better already...if not, i'll admit, taking back a bit of what i said above--armor could stand to do more with regard to reducing damage  rather than just blocking-- even when someone lands a very skilled hit, armor would take the brunt of the damage, or at least in some way still protect you... Tho the next hit to same spot should do a lot more... I still think armor should get damaged each time you take damage on that body region with it on and that you shouldn't really be able to repair if they get to low enough quality; it should be like cars & nylons--made to work, but not so well you don't need to get new ones each time one gets a giant hole. Even weapons should be irreperable if they have been repeatedly damaged without getting repaired between... but i'm getting offtopic somewhat again..

there should totally be trainable walk/run skills [as i think was suggested in other threads] and they should affect falling, run spped, endurance impact on stamina, & if it's put in-- the way your combat skills are affected by doing them...

not allow running during combat =feast for ulbers...When should people not be able to run?--when wearing full heavy armor...what's the flaw in that idea?--then they shouldn't be able to run when carrying it either..but it could work if it just greatly reducs physical stamina when worn compared to carried..

To lose a duel because you ran too far is a tad unrealistic & confusing, in that if you hit me & then run, i can still hurt you, but if i choose not to pursue, who really gave up? --if we run opposite ways because i misjudged where you went, who loses? --but admittedly if it's tied with certain things like entering hydlaa or oja's walls it sounds like a good idea--but if tied to boundaries there would need to be a way to know... sort of like the tutorial, a popup the first time each character approaches a duel boundary... sounds tricky, & annnoying first times, as long as it's not jut mapborder based or actual distance based it sounds good... my main issue with actual distance, assuming a liberal distance is already given, inn magic battles some would run & cast healing in hiding befor engaging again & i felt it was fair despite my inability to claim victory..



The game is absolutely coded with stationary combat in mind--that's why there are spells that have varrious ranges.. that's why the settings (tho i forget where) reffer to what presumably should be introduced later with regards to the 'reach' of a longsword vs shortsword or dagger... that's why spells are interrupted when you run but not when you walk... that's why spells that require you to be in touch range to initiate & complete allow you to not be in touch range for the time between, and thats why some npcs, once engaged in combat, give chase--better yet that's why you can run & attack while unable to run & cast spells... Jeez it should be obvious it's coded with stationary combat in mind, you shouldn't need someone pointing that out & explaining why...

Absolutely Ulbers should be able to run at 1 & 1/4 playerspeed, & turn on a dime, moreover in fact they should be able to give players death by choronary failure just by their being within your visual range if your will is too low --unless you had already cast the realm 1 brown way spell "Stones of Steel" (not to be mistaken for the combined Brown & Blue way realm 2 spell "Stones of Steel-Blue").
(  i have to admit that your suggestion falls under the thinking of a run skill--in which case making ulbers faster & more agile would be a pretty rockin' plan)


(EDIT: March 4. added bold after Nikodemus' 2nd post)

[zanzibar]

I agree that one hit kills are realistic - for a normal person.  But when you can carry 300 pounds of gold ore... it's alll fantasy so I guess anything goes.  I think one hit kills should stay, it's just that they're problematic and they make duels silly.


It used to be that if you moved at all, the spell would abort.  It's very new that you can walk while casting spells.

[Nikodemus]

I agree that one hit kills are realistic

Why the heck people say it and then how bad it is for gameplay. You know why it is like that? Because it is like that in RL, but the time it takes to deal the blow. Noone say about it Noone say you can't train your defence in relation to the other person skills. Noone say that the hit shouldn't happen without some warnings you realize while fighting, especially when both warriors are equally skilled.
What people say instead is for example like Zanzibar: That the world is fantasy and we can just stand few hits.
With this attitude you won't have good fight. It will be eighter like now, or the damage will be lowered, but your char will still animate like being hit, so it is what people will conclude.

[zanzibar]

Or maybe a hit isn't always really a hit.  The problem is that hit points might not actually be the same thing as health.  It can be symbolic for your ability to defend yourself.

It's a complicated issue and I don't claim to have all the answers; it's just that I happen to have most of them.

[Nikodemus]

Or maybe a hit isn't always really a hit.  The problem is that hit points might not actually be the same thing as health.  It can be symbolic for your ability to defend yourself.

If someone rememmbered this, then i gues i was successful, while explaining it.
I wonder which option will be choisen by the devs when this will start being worked on.
I'm already convinced to this optio since the long time, because all the other have more flaws. But unfortunately the dicission isn't up to me ;P