Author Topic: To leave or not to leave, that is the question  (Read 3730 times)

lordraleigh

  • Guest
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2007, 04:02:33 am »
The conflicts are supposed to be between the players and the monsters and elements - not between the players and other players.  That much is true.  As far as leaving, there are plenty of reasons to leave but I don't think this is a particularly good one.  What's wrong with people helping eachother and being nice?

I guess no conflict between opposing groups of civilized beings.

I'm by no means trying to stop you. The settings are no reason to leave though.

Once you have an idea that would hardly fit on them and that you dedicated some real time to it, and are informed you should scrap it out because it "won't fit the Settings", it is more than enough reason.

The problem is obvious:

A peaceful stable land with no internal conflicts/corruption/tyranny = A land devoid of political ideas

Also I wonder how could the Crimson Order Brotherhood background history fit then:

Quote
At first was a dream. Aegmar, a mere Ylian peasant was tired of working for a scornful and faraway lord, whom face he had never seen. Yet, for the security of his beloved family, he was enduring his burden silently, dismissing any thought of revolt or flight.

How am I demotivating you.

I'm saying there is a possibility, just not a good one.

Well because once I reach five RL years developing an idea and see it fall to dust, even being virtual, the disappointment would be somewhat real. But there'll be for sure contingency plans as it progress.

Still it's origin may be unjustifiable as previously mentioned.

----

More one thing:

I would've expected for a project focusing on RP to give more space for it instead of straightjacketing it.

Monotony is not something people usually are looking for in a game, except if it is really complex to keep interest(Like SimCity).

I guess many of the guilds would need to depart due to those things.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 04:32:13 am by lordraleigh »

Volund

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 184
    • View Profile
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2007, 06:04:31 am »
There are about ussualy 160 or so people averagely online in PS every day or so. When there is a guild war there is about 30+ estimated involved. that is almost 1/7 of the people alive in the game, you are telling me 1/7 of everyone is minor crime? pvp should no be wiped out. Pvp cant rule the world. has to be a moderation. To tell you the truth I dont see goverment, Gm's should try to reinforce some sort of law enforcement.

[btw my numbers...dont be a moron and start shooting off numbers saying im wrong, its an estimation].
We all know ylians have the package, the looks, the brain, pretty much all of it, I feel guilty.

bloodedIrishman's alter-ego while stunned by the banhammer.

Karyuu

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 9341
    • View Profile
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2007, 06:14:47 am »
GMs are out-of-character "Game Moderators" - they cannot police the world and punish "bad characters." However in some GM events a thief may be turned over to the guards, or there may be attention from a Vigesimi, etc. Right now there really isn't much for the government to get involved in. At this time people fight mostly because they are bored and want something exciting to do, RP-fighting or not. There's a bit too much conflict than what there should be, but that's generally due to a lack of other features.

Lordraleigh: I know for a fact that many roleplays will have to be trashed or adapted when more of PlaneShift is released. You're not playing in a setting where everything is established, so some people (and yes sometimes even entire guilds) may be forced to change their stories when they learn more about the world they exist in. If "The majority of conflict comes from the Stone Labyrinth" bores you, you are completely free to find a game that suits your interests more. We are not here aiming to get as many players as possible because they're paying us :)
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

lordraleigh

  • Guest
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2007, 06:22:33 am »
What really bothers me is not the absence of armed conflict, but this insistency on the "good government" thing. IRL China is pretty peaceful and stable, still it is anything but a good government.

Strange, specially due to the fact you can choose "Political Career Failed" as a life event in character creation and it says that you worked for a Vigesimi that was assassinated due to political interests and decided to never try again getting into politics.

Also I wonder about the "Ideologies" choices on character creation.

I think those two things pretty much justify the existence of the organization.

My main question is:

Are the Settings written on stone?

If that is the case then guilds that involve into politics are all useless.


----

Lastly I hope that there won't be a hardcore enforcement about this absence of conflicts, specially on outdoors areas, or many(if not all) would leave for feeling themselves straightjacketed(except for the 13375 that don't care about Settings of course). It would be a nightmare to see people being banned because they made guild wars in the fields outside Hydlaa as "It's not supposed to be a conflicting land!"
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 06:27:36 am by lordraleigh »

Garile

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 543
  • Some people forget it's a game.
    • View Profile
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2007, 06:36:09 am »
Is the octarch goverment all good?
No it is not. And please stop comparing it to things like china and the nazies. Yes there are some good points in their goverments, but you are using that fact to say we should asume that if a goverment has the same general good points it HAS to have the bad points aswell. Point is if someone would describe the chinees goverment if he was objective he would definately write the bad things aswell, so if the setting doesn't mention any of such major opression issues or the like you can safely asume they aren't there.

The main problem with Antigoverment movements are that the goverment IS NOT IMPLEMENTED. So although I feel you could RP such a movement exists you can't just create one without the major problem that you have no idea, what so ever, what kind of problem you would get into with authorities and obviously it would be pointles to RP something like that if you don't take into account how someone like that would need to behave. For what actions you would get arrested and if there are Vigesemi who might misuse their power to get you evicted from your home.

How do you roleplay overthrowing something that is not there? Thats just swinging in the air and it will pretty soon just make the RP look cheap in my eyes.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2007, 06:39:00 am by Garile »
Join the oldest cause.
Characters: Meriner(dead), Garile(dead), Yayelle, Ruicho, Almada

lordraleigh

  • Guest
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2007, 06:47:43 am »
@Garile: It's not actually an anti-government movement. It's goal is not to ovethrow the existing government either, but to build a new one elsewhere in the distant future.

I guess you pretty summed up things. I'll just keep it running and hope nothing is done to have it 100% scrapped down.

Enough justifications for now(If these three things didn't exist in Character Creation, I would assume it wouldn't exist any political ground of opposing ideas):

"Politician Career Failed"

"Ideology of Freedom" X "Ideology of Rules"

"Ideology of Everyone" X "Ideology of One"

BTW I wasn't comparing it to China. I just pointed out that stability and peace(as the absence of war) does not necessarily means prosperity.

The question is answered: I will not leave and try to keep it on the Settings.

Nurahk

  • Guest
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2007, 06:51:56 am »
There are about ussualy 160 or so people averagely online in PS every day or so. When there is a guild war there is about 30+ estimated involved. that is almost 1/7 of the people alive in the game, you are telling me 1/7 of everyone is minor crime? pvp should no be wiped out. Pvp cant rule the world. has to be a moderation. To tell you the truth I dont see goverment, Gm's should try to reinforce some sort of law enforcement.

[btw my numbers...dont be a moron and start shooting off numbers saying im wrong, its an estimation].

In two cities.  And the people could be sleeping not just dead.

bilbous

  • Guest
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2007, 07:39:22 am »
Perhaps what is needed next is not another town or more of a town on this level is access to a small part of the Stone Labyrinth past the Bronze Doors. Possibly behind the door near the dark rogues, possible the rubble strewn cave at the far end of the rock wall beyond the guard post with the plank walkway leading to the dark rogue tunnels.

emeraldfool

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1383
  • Irish (adj.): Cynical; morally bankrupt
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio (or at least what I've bothered to upload...)
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2007, 12:04:33 pm »
'Peace' is relative. In a world teeming with rogues and monsters, where everyone has a sword and a fireball at the ready, I don't see how you could possibly say there's no conflict. We're the people of this world, I think we should be able to decide what the people are like.
The devs have enough to worry about with the history, settings, timeline, etc. I think part of the fun of all that is seeing how we, the players, react to the world they immerse us in

Shimmabuku

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 81
    • View Profile
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #39 on: February 25, 2007, 04:41:04 pm »
OK, why dont we compromise instead of argung about "All peace no war, but small crime" and "all out war, small peace."

The conflict with the first on eis that things simply get boring? Why have armor craftsmen and such if they have nothing/nobody to fight? Sure, duels and arena fighting...but that only goes so far. Why cant there be a bigger confilct every now and then?

The conflict with the second is that people would be killing eachother all oer the place, Noobs would have NO chance at survival and Eventually one side will overpower the other. War is different than People running around killing eachother. Its a little more organised. Sides are chosen  between powerful, reletively stable nations, and THEN they fight. and how can there be stability when everyone is killing eachother?

Solution (my opinion)

The Hydlaa Area should be reletively peaceful so newbs can get a grip on the controls and handleing. The city(s) that are designed like this could have a militia of NPCs that could defend the city if anyone actually tried to attack. other Non-Newb citys could war against eachother freely, but not in the sense that when your bored, you just march into some random city and start killing eachother. It should be more rare. So fighting is more exiting and intense. Im sure Armor and weapons dealers would get alot more buisness if there was a possibility of war.

There could be sort of an alliance function, where you can give your alliance to a certain side in a certian conflict. If you and another person were allies to the same side, you wouldnt be able to TK eachother, so people would know who to kill.

Pure peace is boring, pure war is chaotic. Lets mix em up so everyone's happy, eh?
"Never interrupt an enemy while he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon

Nikodemus

  • Prospects
  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1808
    • View Profile
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #40 on: February 25, 2007, 05:08:19 pm »
The society in Yliakum is evolving since centuries - 10 or so if i remember right. Additionally it evolved from a mix of different societies who happened to appear in the same place. Their technological level was also different. And just to give few examples:
Enkidukais being nomad people, a kind of society known before the real world medieval times (roughtly)
Ylians being classical medieval people
And Xacha being society past the time of medieval. Greeks centuries before christ? Maya peoples?
In Yliakum we don't have peoples from different time, but also regions. While the fantasy reality most close to our expectations is the medieval (most of us) - 500-1500 past christ in the europe. And so stories of our guilds. But life in Yliakum could have evolved in different way. The society could start as we know it from medieval Europe and then go in the direction of more peacefull land, without many conflicts and big wars imposible. Although people of Yliakum are relativey united against dangers coming from stone labirynths, there will be always greedy people wanting more for themselves than they need.
Telling that life in Yliakm is complete peacefull harmony is fairy tale. But sometimes it is better to tell this, to stop more people who are going extremly in exactly opposite direction.
* Nikodemus looks a dozen posts before
Someone quoting my guild story \o/ Maybe some people don't realize this, but these events are meant to be few centuries old. At a time closer to the medieval europe. I been taking care fo it to be valid with PS history and after some talking it looks the described events were possible. Of course PS setting is evolving, but i doubt the PS world even at present century will be free of any cruelity. Someone has to pay the taxes and make food ad someon else has to keep it. We will see.



What you can failure tommorow, failure today.


Better click for shiny stylez Help me with images!

Karyuu

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 9341
    • View Profile
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2007, 08:49:53 pm »
The conflict with the first on eis that things simply get boring? Why have armor craftsmen and such if they have nothing/nobody to fight? Sure, duels and arena fighting...but that only goes so far. Why cant there be a bigger confilct every now and then?

I have no idea why I need to repeat "Stone Labyrinths" so many times... :)
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

neko kyouran

  • Guest
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2007, 01:21:12 am »
Karyuu> Stone Labyrinths!

player> stone Labyrinths?

karyuu> stone Labyrinths!

player> wha?

karyuu> stone Labyrinths!

player> huh?

karyuu> Stone Labyrinths!

....

 :P

lordraleigh

  • Guest
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2007, 02:01:12 am »
The large amount of rogues out there and the gang of rogues in BD Road are OOC?

Two Words: Pax Yliakum

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pax_Romana

Five "Good Emperors" of the Pax Romana

In other words: very relative.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2007, 02:03:37 am by lordraleigh »

Seytra

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
  • No system can compensate lack of common sense.
    • View Profile
Re: To leave or not to leave, that is the question
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2007, 05:53:18 pm »
The most important issue with wars inside Yliakum is simply that Yliakum is small. It is way larger than what is ingame ATM, but it still is only about the size of an average RL kingdom. If the information in the geography book at Jayose's is even remotely correct, then it is even possible to stand at the cavern wall one side of the first level and see right to the other side's wall! Additionally, there is a large hole in the land. Also, the land is 3D, not essentially flat like IRL, so the maximum distance between any two points is much smaller than in an RL kingdom. Add to this that one can already use very speedy transport (Pterosaurs) for important matters (like government business) and magic (even if it's by far not all-powerful), then it becomes clear that running such a country is much easier than it is IRL, and even RL kingdoms rarely had internal wars.

The general feel of Yliakum is that of a "golden era", seeing that a large percentage of the population is literate and science clearly is thriving everywhere.

The Char Creation itself feels much like a temporary placeholder to me. The options that were brought up aren't the only ones that don't really fit in with the setting, so it shouldn't be used to found RP on (even though this is very unfortunate, seeing that it is the only settings-like thing that most newbies are exposed to ATM). Staying with the matters on hand, the conflict between the settings and the CC is not so much "How can a political career fail due to assassination if the government is good?", and instead it must be "How can there be a political career if the government rarely has any elections?".

The government of Yliakum certainly isn't perfect, and the setting doesn't imply that AFAICS. It does, however, imply that there is some sort of effective democracy, since officials that are too much out of the line can be removed by several, even organised, means. However, it also implies that this is rarely necessary.

How is that possible if the Yliaki don't think radically different from RL humans (which they might still, as it would take only a little less greed and pride to have a more stable society)? The answer to this is is also in the setting: Talad. There once upon a time (hundreds or even thousands of years ago, though), there almost was a civil war, between Ylians and Enkidukai about ownership of the first two levels (for farming). The conflict has long been resolved by Talad himself intervening, and the Korogan passage is the most prominent (only?) remainder ftom that time, a monument of peace.
Thus, obviously even in the case of the Yliakum government failing catastrophically, Talad can be expected to stabilise things. This leaves plenty of room for the odd murder and some thievery, even for intrigues and such, just nothing earth-shattering.

The government itself doesn't seem to be god-given, and therefore it certainly is possible for people to think up alternate concepts ("I can do better!"). However, due to the comparatively stable society, they'll not easily find followers, and will need to look for unclaimed land outside the stalactite (knowing that there will likely be no Talad to stabilise things).

In another thread there already was some argument about the rogues, and I still think they are there simply because there's no other place to put them yet, so more or less OOC, yes.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 05:56:34 pm by Seytra »