9/11 re-opened

[Parallo]

I haven't come to a conclusion yet. I have yet to gather enough facts.

[LARAGORN]

You had me worried there, for a second

I dont know who did it either, all I know is that the "official" story is a pack of blaitant lies.

[Karyuu]

* Karyuu cruises by with a broom, waves it down the aisles a few times, sprays an off-topic disinfectant on the thread, then strolls back out.

[LoneDragon]

Now correct me if I am wrong, but there are also inconsistancies in the prison planet screenshots. This is the kind of crap that really gets me ticked off, some of my family could have been victim to this horrendously cruel crime but fortunately they were grounded. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/260207building7.htm If you look at the picture right below the youtube video they point at a building and mark it "5:12 pm EST still there" when actually that is not one of the trade tower buildings. It is a building that was near the trade towers. When in actuallity the trade towers were bigger! than that building and even the pointy building that was way across from that phony trade tower. Another thing the smoke from the collapse wouldve covered a much larger area than in that photo. Heres a video from the news, as you can see the same tower that is being labled in prison planet is actually in front of the trade towers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDh_pvv1tUM I love the BBC, but they probably got a bad point of view on the attacks when that news feed was created. The video looks to me like it was taken a very long time after the attacks, not before. Osama wasnt exactly a poor cave rat, he had more cash and more extremists in the palm of his hands than others give him credit for. I do wonder if this is a government conspiracy, how would they get explosives to the top of that level of the trade tower without the employees knowing? I do not think the government would try anything that sadistic against us because we have the right to give them the boot anytime we well want. Also, how do you brainwash a whole city full of citizens to believe that an airplane didnt fly into the trade towers and it was just "explosives?" I am not trying to start a flame war or anything im just trying to point out something about this prison planet's claims that I think are awry and what I have gathered about 9/11 itself. (I dislike the government alot, and I do believe they lie to us about many things because of their agendas. But I think that this prison planet thing is like the study group that is trying to deny the Holocaust of World War II

[Xus]

(I dislike the government alot, and I do believe they lie to us about many things because of their agendas. But I think that this prison planet thing is like the study group that is trying to deny the Holocaust of World War II

Hey hey hey, an unwilling american after my own taste.  How ya doing?

I don't think anyone is trying to deny that those planes did hit, but the only reason there is mention of explosives is because there are a lot of feelings that the plane crash alone wouldn't be detrimental enough to the building structure to make it collapse.  I, not having any sort of education in demolitions or structural engineering, have no clue about it, but as a common layman I can testify that the collapses do look a bit fishy, but then, like I just said, I don't know anything... But you bring up a good point about the explosives and how anyone could possibly get them up there in the building.  Mind you, it realli wouldn't be necessary (or, indeed, very effective) for the explosives to be high-up in the building, but more likely, if they were involved, they would be placed lower in the structure (thank you Metal Gear Solid: Sons of Liberty for the crash-course in bomb placement strategy ).  Yet even still, it would be quite near impossible for the explosives to have been placed there in advance (and with the chaos of a quaking, evacuating building, it would indeed have to be in advance) without anyone seeing them during installation, or for the period of time afterward.  Therefore, if explosives were indeed used (and I think someone said earlier in the thread that many people testified to having smelt explosives), then they were likely allowed to be installed, which further points to some kind of deeper premeditation than what we were all told.  (Mind you I's not even CLOSE to stating that as fact, Parallo, just speculatin' ).

But all in all (and I got a lot of crap for making this claim before, but so be it; I'm gonna say it again), I think that the way little tidbits of information and inconsistencies keep showing up points pretty constantly to a real POSSIBILITY and even likeliness that there is definitely more to this incident than what we were all told, but the depth of that deception is probably somewhere slightly deeper than a mistaken news reporter and slightly shallower than a deep, dark, secret political move from the Illuminati.  Do I think we're all safe sleeping in bed tonight?  Sure, sleep away, weary soul.  But am I still going to keep reading other posts and other sources to try to learn the truth behind all of this, simply to assuage some base, primordial lust for understanding?  You bet I am.

[LARAGORN]

 
WOW, Where to begin

Now correct me if I am wrong, but there are also inconsistancies in the prison planet screenshots. This is the kind of crap that really gets me ticked off, some of my family could have been victim to this horrendously cruel crime but fortunately they were grounded. http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/260207building7.htm If you look at the picture right below the youtube video they point at a building and mark it "5:12 pm EST still there" when actually that is not one of the trade tower buildings.

I will take your advice and correct you. Actually, yes it IS one of the WTC buildings, it is WTC building 7. Take a close look at other pictures of the WTC layout, like this one and this one and others. They clearly show the difference in sizes of the WTC buildings from different viewpoints. To say the building in that video is not part of the World Trade Centre buildings and that it is not building 7 makes me question your ability to have an intelligent discussion on the matter.

It is a building that was near the trade towers. When in actuallity the trade towers were bigger! than that building and even the pointy building that was way across from that phony trade tower.

This really isn’t helping you at all here. From your comments I can only assume you think all of the WTC buildings were tall skyscrapers?  (lol, pointy building )

Another thing the smoke from the collapse wouldve covered a much larger area than in that photo. Heres a video from the news, as you can see the same tower that is being labled in prison planet is actually in front of the trade towers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDh_pvv1tUM I love the BBC, but they probably got a bad point of view on the attacks when that news feed was created. The video looks to me like it was taken a very long time after the attacks, not before.

You do realize the subject at hand takes place many hours after the planes hit the two towers, don’t you ?

I do wonder if this is a government conspiracy, how would they get explosives to the top of that level of the trade tower without the employees knowing? I do not think the government would try anything that sadistic against us because we have the right to give them the boot anytime we well want. Also, how do you brainwash a whole city full of citizens to believe that an airplane didnt fly into the trade towers and it was just "explosives?"

Clearly you are not aware of the theories of what happened. I would suggest doing a little more research on some of the theories. Most do not dispute the fact of planes hitting the towers (some do ), they do dispute the fact that the planes were enough to bring them down, and then for building 7 to come down hours later with no plane having hit it.

As far as explosives go, one of the theories behind that is that weeks before 911 security was ‘upgrading’ the system. During this time, floors were closed and people were given days off, systematically section by section was cut off from the rest of the building for short periods of time. There were dozens of ‘security’ personnel in and out for weeks, this would have given them the appropriate time to install the explosives. The bomb sniffing dogs were not brought in for a few weeks before as well.

I am not trying to start a flame war or anything im just trying to point out something about this prison planet's claims that I think are awry and what I have gathered about 9/11 itself. (I dislike the government alot, and I do believe they lie to us about many things because of their agendas. But I think that this prison planet thing is like the study group that is trying to deny the Holocaust of World War II

A flame war is something I don’t want either. I do think your views are based on limited knowledge of what information is available. Prison Planet is but one site that is sharing this information, there are many others that IMHO are doing a far better job.

Your last comment doesn’t even warrant a response.

‘All great truths begin as blasphemies’ – Shaw

Laragorn

[Parallo]

Mind you I's not even CLOSE to stating that as fact, Parallo, just speculatin'

You think you insulted my use of English! Hah! "I's"!

[ereale]

an easy to watch informative video on the topic is called "loose change no.2", it's easy to understand and worth checking out. Also easy to get hold of.

[Xus]

 

Mind you I's not even CLOSE to stating that as fact, Parallo, just speculatin'

You think you insulted my use of English! Hah! "I's"!

You caught me... 

Impressive close-reading, by the way.

[LARAGORN]

In this article it names members of government and other agencies who have voiced there concerns of 911.

The media, in general, tries to scoff at the idea that the events of 9/11 have not been properly investigated, but numerous present and former US government officials are not scoffing.

Senator Max Cleland - Former member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned in December 2003 "I, as a member of the [9/11] Commission, cannot look any American in the eye... It is a national scandal... this White House wants to cover [9/11] up."


Senator Mark Dayton - Member, Senate Committee on Armed Services and Homeland Security "[NORAD] lied to the American people, they lied to Congress and they lied to your 9/11 Commission...the most gross incompetence and dereliction of responsibility and negligence"

There are more like these in the article. When people in positions such as mentioned in the article, voice thier outrage at the known lies and cover ups, it makes me wonder how anyone can still believe the 'official' story and not question anything they are told.


Edited to add: In this clip you hear the firefighters saying "theres a building about to blow up". Shouldnt they have said collapse ?

[Garile]

Well there are inconsistencies I will admit, but the problem is the "conspiracy theorists" are making movies that contain simple lies. Like one of the most famous that was even shown on TV here gave examples of the pentagon and how that shape couldn't have been made by a plane and how the rotor that was lying there wasn't even of that plane. Now you don't have to be an expert to then look up how the rotor of that plane looks like and see they are simply lying about that part and in the show after that an expert was allowed to show a computer program to calculate how a hole would look like if it did chrash and it happned just as the hole was on the pentagon.

Also the WTC buildings were said to have had explosives what wasn't the case either. When something like that happens a structure looses it's own structure and to much weight iis put on junctions and then bolts start shooting and then it falls down. Again a computer analyzes shows if you asume this happened that it looks identical to what happened. Now if a TVshow in Holland can get that info from some experts in less then a weeks time I am really wondering how people can make such a movie if you don't have the intention to convince people without caring if it's true or not and it makes the few things that are left really just straws.

[LoneDragon]

@ Laragorn: yes sarcasm noted, you knew where to begin.  Also there are actually people who are trying to cover up for themselves by trying to debunk the Holocaust, insane i know. >> It was necessary for my post because i believe that conspiracy theorists, also have just as much the ability to lie and construe the evidence as the government does.

@ Laragorn: Yes I did have limited knowledge on the layout, the link cleared things up. Also BTW pointy building was for a lack of better words. I have not been there, so the name escapes me. yes I will admit that my points are from limited research, thank you for the further insight on the real layout and what the conspiracy theories are actually saying.(maybe the "revealers of the truth" should be more organized as a group with their information) I am glad that you pointed out where i was wrong, but I am still not picturing the words "government conspiracy" stamped on the falling of the towers and the deaths of many innocents.

actually as i've been thinking about it. there was a conspiracy to destroy the towers...

but it wasn't by any american agency or the like.

for that matter it wasn't aliens either, though they may have been watching.

it was a conspiracy by islamic extremists.

Hey come on, now.  No one likes a smart-aleck. 

The fact that both CNN and BBC reported the collapse early sort of dampens the reek of conspiracy a little bit... but regardless I still am starting to believe more and more that it was a set up thing.  I mean, look how quickly we fat americans dropped the fight in Afghanistan.  And the fact that we pulled out before finding Osama doesn't realli prove that it was all just a show, but it DOES, at least, fit in with the whole idea.

And look at the nature of the attack itself.  Osama realli didn't express all that much of an interest in the U.S. before (not that I know of, anyway; maybe a few attacks here and there, but nothing majour).  And all of a sudden, as if overnight, he decides he's going to hit us up, does so, makes a few more tapes threatening us, and. . .

he slips into the shadows.  I mean, that's got to be the most ADD terrorist I'VE ever seen.  Just takes a brief break from his usual fight to kill a bunch of Americans, only to forget about it shortly thereafter... It just seems weird to me.

I can see that these claims really dont fit the real bill (i made the mistake of not gathering enough information so i have no room to point fingers. I am trying to say that you are not giving Osama and his terrorist lackeys the actual credit.)

Just because something fits with a theory doesn't make it true. Have you seen a pink elephant? No? That means that my theory that they are invisable is true.

Ill second that 

Just because something fits with a theory doesn't make it true. Have you seen a pink elephant? No? That means that my theory that they are invisable is true.

So you believe the 'official' story ?

I haven't come to a conclusion yet. I have yet to gather enough facts.

You had me worried there, for a second

I dont know who did it either, all I know is that the "official" story is a pack of blaitant lies.

Was there an actual point in trying to intimidate the guy by asking him if he believes the "official" story and expecting him to say no? What if he does? What if he doesnt? Does that really matter in this case? This is why i love mythbusters so much, they try to take a myth and either prove it right or "bust" it without too much personal sentiments. When a conspiracy theory arises there are always going to be ones who try to prove the theory and those who try to debunk the theory. People who don't think that the conspiracy theories dont exactly add up either are not exactly brainwashed citizens who "believe what theyre told."

Well there are inconsistencies I will admit, but the problem is the "conspiracy theorists" are making movies that contain simple lies. Like one of the most famous that was even shown on TV here gave examples of the pentagon and how that shape couldn't have been made by a plane and how the rotor that was lying there wasn't even of that plane. Now you don't have to be an expert to then look up how the rotor of that plane looks like and see they are simply lying about that part and in the show after that an expert was allowed to show a computer program to calculate how a hole would look like if it did chrash and it happned just as the hole was on the pentagon.

Also the WTC buildings were said to have had explosives what wasn't the case either. When something like that happens a structure looses it's own structure and to much weight iis put on junctions and then bolts start shooting and then it falls down. Again a computer analyzes shows if you asume this happened that it looks identical to what happened. Now if a TVshow in Holland can get that info from some experts in less then a weeks time I am really wondering how people can make such a movie if you don't have the intention to convince people without caring if it's true or not and it makes the few things that are left really just straws.

I dont know maybe theyre in the public hysteria business >>. 

(I dislike the government alot, and I do believe they lie to us about many things because of their agendas. But I think that this prison planet thing is like the study group that is trying to deny the Holocaust of World War II

Hey hey hey, an unwilling american after my own taste.  How ya doing?

I don't think anyone is trying to deny that those planes did hit, but the only reason there is mention of explosives is because there are a lot of feelings that the plane crash alone wouldn't be detrimental enough to the building structure to make it collapse.  I, not having any sort of education in demolitions or structural engineering, have no clue about it, but as a common layman I can testify that the collapses do look a bit fishy, but then, like I just said, I don't know anything... But you bring up a good point about the explosives and how anyone could possibly get them up there in the building.  Mind you, it realli wouldn't be necessary (or, indeed, very effective) for the explosives to be high-up in the building, but more likely, if they were involved, they would be placed lower in the structure (thank you Metal Gear Solid: Sons of Liberty for the crash-course in bomb placement strategy ).  Yet even still, it would be quite near impossible for the explosives to have been placed there in advance (and with the chaos of a quaking, evacuating building, it would indeed have to be in advance) without anyone seeing them during installation, or for the period of time afterward.  Therefore, if explosives were indeed used (and I think someone said earlier in the thread that many people testified to having smelt explosives), then they were likely allowed to be installed, which further points to some kind of deeper premeditation than what we were all told.  (Mind you I's not even CLOSE to stating that as fact, Parallo, just speculatin' ).

But all in all (and I got a lot of crap for making this claim before, but so be it; I'm gonna say it again), I think that the way little tidbits of information and inconsistencies keep showing up points pretty constantly to a real POSSIBILITY and even likeliness that there is definitely more to this incident than what we were all told, but the depth of that deception is probably somewhere slightly deeper than a mistaken news reporter and slightly shallower than a deep, dark, secret political move from the Illuminati.  Do I think we're all safe sleeping in bed tonight?  Sure, sleep away, weary soul.  But am I still going to keep reading other posts and other sources to try to learn the truth behind all of this, simply to assuage some base, primordial lust for understanding?  You bet I am.

Theres no where else to go  . The news has never told us exactly everything that goes on, half the time they put on THE WORLD IS DYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on and expect us to watch it. Explosives being planted and detonated inside the two towers that were hit by airplanes would have taken much more preplanned knowledge of the attacks than just simple demolition work. They would have had to have known the precise day, the precise time, the precise location of the airplane crashes, and that there were going to be plane crashes in the first place. So, if this actually is a government conspiracy then we have the right to take up arms and take down the government! ( which i think Osama would be really happy about)

In this article it names members of government and other agencies who have voiced there concerns of 911.

The media, in general, tries to scoff at the idea that the events of 9/11 have not been properly investigated, but numerous present and former US government officials are not scoffing.

Senator Max Cleland - Former member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned in December 2003 "I, as a member of the [9/11] Commission, cannot look any American in the eye... It is a national scandal... this White House wants to cover [9/11] up."


Senator Mark Dayton - Member, Senate Committee on Armed Services and Homeland Security "[NORAD] lied to the American people, they lied to Congress and they lied to your 9/11 Commission...the most gross incompetence and dereliction of responsibility and negligence"

There are more like these in the article. When people in positions such as mentioned in the article, voice thier outrage at the known lies and cover ups, it makes me wonder how anyone can still believe the 'official' story and not question anything they are told.


Edited to add: In this clip you hear the firefighters saying "theres a building about to blow up". Shouldnt they have said collapse ?

Building 7 is really a slap in the face to me. I dont know why the government would really want it to be demolished. If they did well that would be the biggest mistake in the history of the US.

[LARAGORN]

@ Garile:  I have seen the show you are talking about, but do not believe they are correct. It is easy to make a computer simulation do anything you want. There are to many things about the pentagon that don’t add up, like the lack of debris and the perfect undisturbed lawn in front, the marked areas on interior walls and some eye witnesses description of the plane. The pentagon has one of the best security systems in the world with still and video cameras everywhere, but they have no clear pictures of the plane.


/sarcasm off

So, if this actually is a government conspiracy then we have the right to take up arms and take down the government! ( which i think Osama would be really happy about)

If the government lies about anything and withholds the truth, that is by definition ‘government conspiracy’ and YES you should ‘take down’ those in government that are a part of the conspiracy.

Here is a little info about Osama; the US and the Brits trained him and gave him the financial backing to get started. Do a little searching; you will be shocked at the backdoor deals that have taken place.

Money is still being given to AL QAEDA,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd5_2xXK_Zc  p1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHIvGr6ZytU  p2

Building 7 is really a slap in the face to me.  I dont know why the government would really want it to be demolished. If they did well that would be the biggest mistake in the history of the US.

There was a lot of very important information in WTC 7, it is believed that the information would have ended the careers of some high positioned politicians, even the highest, and could have meant jail time for many. Now we will never know what was in WTC 7.

[zanzibar]

Building 7 is really a slap in the face to me. I dont know why the government would really want it to be demolished. If they did well that would be the biggest mistake in the history of the US.

It was storing documents for a high profile investigation.  Something to do with government fraud or bank fraud or something.  Anyway, it was an extremely important investigation for some reason and when the building was lost all the documents were destroyed so they were forced to start the investigation all over again.

[lordraleigh]

There was a lot of very important information in WTC 7, it is believed that the information would have ended the careers of some high positioned politicians, even the highest, and could have meant jail time for many. Now we will never know what was in WTC 7.

Another potential reason for doing it. See "Operation Northwoods. Making-up terrorist attacks to justify invasions is an old history.

I have a closed-mind regarding to this: I am sure that the official "truths" about what was behind 09/11 are nothing but a  big coverup for the tip of the iceberg.

There's much more behind it, who knows? The invasion against Pearl Harbor was known but still nothing was done to stop it as a pretext was needed for US to enter in full-fledged war with Japan as their spheres of influence were in competition.

09/11 became a base for the pretexts for:

- Patriot Acts
- Invasions Liberations of Afhganistan, Iraq and following human rights abuses improvement of their people's lives
- Guantanamo concentration camp prison
- Arbitrary prisons against certain ethnical groups terrorists

What's next for the greatest neofascist empire democratic government of the world...

Martial Law ?

REX-84 ?

The mask of democracy is falling slowly since 09/11 and one more "terrorist" strike on the same scale probably would be a sufficient pretext for Martial Law.