Crafting system

[John80sk]

I'm happy to see this change, hopefully it'll bump up the prices of crafted weapons.

EDIT: Would be nice if it weren't so hard to train blacksmith though

[pedenel]

Finally got round to testing the change in the crafting system and I fully understand Eila's points on how much more difficult it has become. However, I do realize that it is desirable to make the crafting of high quality weapons and items difficult to avoid swamping the markets.

Nonetheless, I have just one query for the Dev team. Are there further planned changes that will make it possible for a player to have a pure craftsman character? A character that does not need to learn combat, magic, mining or metallurgy skills to be a pure craftsman?  This would apply to future crafts to be introduced as well.

By changes, I specifically mean changes that will allow a budding craftsman to buy materials either from the market or NPCs and produce a saleable product at a profit at all levels.

[joshua6021]

I keep hearing everyones complaints but see no ground in it. Come on now folks. This is one of the best changes I have seen yet. In order to become a master crafter it takes alot of practice in real life. Alot!!!! So why should some one step in after an hour or even 20 hours and be able to make a 300 quality weapon. I believe that is for people who want to specialize. This makes that possable. As well it will help the pricing of weapons in the future. Great Job Team!!!!

[eldoth_terevan]

Surely nobody thought it would stay easy like that forever...?

[Noldir]

I couldn't agree more with joshua6021...

In real world, warriors usually didn't make weapons for themselfs(knights, paladins,samurais,...), that was the job of people called blacksmiths. Mainly that is because warriors spend most of their life training combat, while blacksmiths were working with metals for their whole lifes. So if a warrior would just go and try to make himself a weapon, he would probablay make a really bad weapon if he'd made one at all. So if this games tries to reflect the real world, this is the way to go.

It would be nice if you got Progression points with doing all of this, but I guess it will be possible in the future. 

With this system we are just one step closer to what this game is going to be. An realistic imitation of an medivial world.

P.S.:I myself have no problems with crafting bad weapons... I spent many hours training to get my blacksmithing to 11 and the best weapon I made was an 81/81 dagger, and when I had 10, best weapon was 72/72, but you don't see me complaining. I enjoy to see, that all my hard work actually has some resaults, not just 300/300 right away.

 

[Gharan]

Surely nobody thought it would stay easy like that forever...?

I know, I don't see why people moan. It now takes alot of practice to become a skilled crafter, finally bringing meaning to the levels.
I once had to sell 50 daggers over quality which is 2500 ore, you didn't see me moaning. 

[Zan]

What I'm really wondering is ... are these 300 quality swords and daggers really so good or are they just decent smithing work? I expect much better and fancier weapons being craftable in the future.

I do agree with the more XP from crafting and mining .. a crafter or miner should have an equal experience income than a fighter.

[emeraldfool]

What I'm really wondering is ... are these 300 quality swords and daggers really so good or are they just decent smithing work? I expect much better and fancier weapons being craftable in the future.

I do agree with the more XP from crafting and mining .. a crafter or miner should have an equal experience income than a fighter.

Maybe it's the best we can make with just steel.

Perhaps zinc-steel alloys are more powerful in Yliakum, or maybe we'll be able to mine Silverweave Ore - or some other new crafting materials - later on, to make more powerful 300/300 weapons...

Also, I agree about the XP thing.

[John80sk]

I still don't get what PP are... what possible IC explanation is there?

[lordraleigh]

I still don't get what PP are... what possible IC explanation is there?

Nope, it's 100% OOC and a inheritage from MMO"RP"Gs that hopefully will be removed when PS reaches version 1.0

[John80sk]

It would be nice if we were given an explanation of what effects the quality of stock though... does metallurgy help at all?  Does your skill in weapon making effect the final quality?  Don't think this would be considered a spoiler, as I'd at least think that in the end they're all supposed to affect it.

[Unnamed_Source]

I still don't get what PP are... what possible IC explanation is there?

Its a substitution for classes and levels. notice how you don't see people bragging about their lvl 45 dwarven crusader or lvl 85 Kran warlock. there is no class and level but subsequently there is a need to gain skills and hone them. hence we have experience, not to level(cause we have no levels) but to train in skills. Partly because classes and levels gave an order to when the skills could be learnt. with PS, Its an open system where you can learn anything at any time and excel in it at your own pace. Since experience has been used in other MMO's effectively and no other reasonable alternative has been suggested, PS uses experience as a way to increase our skills or gain new ones. Now experience alone can't do it, you need a milestone of sorts. Traditionally that milestone was when you leveled but since we have no levels here, that milestone comes in the form of Practice Points, other wise know and PP.

Now along with PP what possible explanation to skill levels is there? If you got rid of skill levels, how could you define between a noob making a sword and a player of 7 years or a new character vs a veteran. For crafting, recipes but those can be taken OOC and posted on the web or just used cross character which is all OOC.

If you leave the skill levels, how are you going to level them with out PP? Just through practice come to mind, we can get rid of trainers and just allow people to pick up any skill at level 0 and start working on it. Like in Real Life, even if you don't learn it in school, though practice you'll eventually learn and master what ever you are doing. That's how you get multimillionaires with 8th grade educations.)

[TomT]

Also, if I know I can't progress very far as there are no higher level trainers, why would I get started? Please add some higher level training so that those who want to become a master craftsman can do so.

I hope you will see them soon.

Nonetheless, I have just one query for the Dev team. Are there further planned changes that will make it possible for a player to have a pure craftsman character? A character that does not need to learn combat, magic, mining or metallurgy skills to be a pure craftsman?  This would apply to future crafts to be introduced as well.

No changes are planned since it is possible now.  And we will continue to everything to encourage it.

To the blacksmiths, I would suggest focusing on just the blacksmith skill and the related specialty skills.  All other skills have no effect on your craft.  Find a player willing to sell you high quality stock.  To those who want to make some good money find yourself a blacksmith or two and get your metallurgy skill to the point that you can supply them the raw materials that they need.

By changes, I specifically mean changes that will allow a budding craftsman to buy materials either from the market or NPCs and produce a saleable product at a profit at all levels.

The price of raw materials and the time it takes to create items are all carefully measured.  But until the economy is working better it does not make sense to focus on getting that balanced any more then it already is.

It would be nice if we were given an explanation of what effects the quality of stock though... does metallurgy help at all?  Does your skill in weapon making effect the final quality?  Don't think this would be considered a spoiler, as I'd at least think that in the end they're all supposed to affect it.

As any experienced blacksmith will tell you the quality of the raw material has everything to do with the quality of the resulting craft.  In some cases it might have more affect then the skill of the crafter.

Besides the occasional inspirational craft as well as the inevitable blunder, on any given day the highest skilled craftsman can create items that are double the quality of the raw material during very specific skill related steps in the process; such as the shaping of the blade or the final cast of the stock.  For complicated items there may be even two or three of these critical steps.

[John80sk]

...so that's a yes on all skills currently affect the quality of the final weapon?

EDIT: A minor suggestion, perhaps heating stock could improve blacksmith as well, as it takes days to train these supposedly lower levels of blacksmith.

[TomT]

...so that's a yes on all skills currently affect the quality of the final weapon?

Only blacksmith and swordmaking are checked to determine quality when making a sword.  Metallurgy skills contribute to quality of stock.  Quality of stock contributes to quality of weapon.  Different skills different jobs.